Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

Boxing arguments continue
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/sep/01/imane-khelif-appeals-cas-boxing

Imane Khelif has appealed to the court of arbitration for sport over World Boxing’s decision to bar the 26-year-old from its events without a preliminary genetic sex test.
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World Boxing Championships start on 4 September, but it seems unlikely that the case will be heard before then, and CAS has ruled they will not remove the suspension before the case is heard.
 
It's normal for airport police to be armed, but even so. I think most people find the police at the airports intimidating, because we're not used to armed cops on a day to day basis.
 
theprestige said:
I'll have to remember this one, the next time some smug brit tells me the UK is the more civilized nation, in its sparing use of armed police.
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Yeah, good one. Not used to jokes from you.

In case you are serious, the UK is more civilised than the US in every conceivable way, apart from, perhaps, football hooliganism. That might be a line call.
 
Getting away from this pissing-up-the-wall contest, why is it that the police are acting as enforcers for the trans lobby? It'd not down to the officers who actually arrested Glinner, they seemed relatively sympathetic to him. Who is it who is repeatedly authorising jackboot tactics against people "Lyndsay" Watson targets with his "PoliceSEEN" fake accounts and his overblown rhetoric? He was actually chucked out of the police for online harrassment (after having been advised that he should simply use a pseudonym to continue the harrassment), but he still has them dancing to his tune. While at the same time far more explicit and serious incitements to violence from the trans side are ignored and played down.
 
theprestige said:
[Females] who look like men aren't the problem. Men who demand an entitlement to be there regardless of how women feel about it are the problem.
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Wild that you don't see any connection here, given that every policy proposal so far has treated transwomen and transmen alike.
theprestige said:
Entitling women, by social convention and by law, to police their spaces without fear of reprisal.
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Assuming females who pass as males are forced by federal policy to go back to using women's spaces, they will be among those most affected by an upsurge in the sort of policing you describe here.
theprestige said:
That solution has worked for decades, maybe even a century or more.
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During almost all of that time we had not yet seen the post-2012 upsurge in adolescent onset gender dysphoria (mostly females) who would go on to use cross-sex hormones and subsequently pass as the opposite sex. You're promoting return to time-tested solution without accounting for changed circumstances on the ground; this is Maginot Line thinking.
Thermal said:
so when you said that we need to keep people who look like men out of women's spaces, you were kidding?
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No.
Thermal said:
literally everyone effected
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Who on Earth has been adversely affected by masculine looking females in women's spaces?

Certainly not the radfems & gendercrits, they've got plenty of butch ladies in their own ranks and don't seem to mind at all.

Thermal said:
I think the issue is far wider than who feels threatened
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Maybe you could come up with an example of what the issue is claimed to be by someone who actually says there is one?
 
Aber said:
World Boxing Championships start on 4 September, but it seems unlikely that the case will be heard before then, and CAS has ruled they will not remove the suspension before the case is heard.
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Nothing says "I've always been female and deserve to compete as such" quite like fighting for the legal right to refuse genetic testing. :p
 
d4m10n said:
No.
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Ok. So "people who look like men" would include some transmen and lesbians and ciswomen who appear masculine. Although you said not to presume or guess that.

Instead of saying that you refer to people in one post, then only males or females in the next, then getting ambiguous when asked for clarification, could we bag this Riddle of the Shpinx ◊◊◊◊ and clarify who the "people" are that you referred to?
d4m10n said:
Who on Earth has been adversely affected by masculine looking females in women's spaces?
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I don't recall the issue being restricted to just them. But to answer you, the recent young lady in the Minnesota Buffalo Wild Wings restroom debacle seems a bit "adversely affected". And it wouldn't take much to perceive Buck Angel as threatening to women who did not know who he was.
d4m10n said:
Certainly not the radfems & gendercrits, they've got plenty of butch ladies in their own ranks and don't seem to mind at all.
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I'm not sure who they are exactly, and fairly confident I don't care.
d4m10n said:
Maybe you could come up with an example of what the issue is claimed to be by someone who actually says there is one?
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I say there is one. Dignity and respect.
 
Ziggurat said:
Why does treating males as males not constitute treating them with dignity and respect?
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Some of them don't think of themselves as males. I believe them. I believe they are sincere, and have mentioned the one I know personally and watched transition from troubled boy to well adjusted woman. I think it is needlessly cruel to refer to her as a man when she looks and acts like a freaking model (she is very slightly built and fine featured, even as a teen boy).
 
Thermal said:
Some of them don't think of themselves as males.
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So? Some anorexics think of themselves as being fat. That's not a sufficient basis to treat them as such. The honesty of their beliefs isn't in question here, the accuracy is. If a male thinks of himself as female, he is still in fact male.
Thermal said:
I believe they are sincere, and have mentioned the one I know personally and watched transition from troubled boy to well adjusted woman. I think it is needlessly cruel to refer to her as a man when she looks and acts like a freaking model (she is very slightly built and fine featured, even as a teen boy).
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I thought you were on board with gender being different than sex? Why does treating them as a woman require treating them as female? Why does treating them as male require treating them as a man?
 
Ziggurat said:
So? Some anorexics think of themselves as being fat. That's not a sufficient basis to treat them as such. The honesty of their beliefs isn't in question here, the accuracy is. If a male thinks of himself as female, he is still in fact male.
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Because in interpersonal relationships, we don't refer to people in objectively accurate terms. You ain't generally calling a fat person fat, true or not. We often defer to self ID, like if someone says they are a Christian, we don't tell them how they aren't because we don't agree with some aspect of their lifestyle that we think is inconsistent with Christianity.
Ziggurat said:
I thought you were on board with gender being different than sex?
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I am.
Ziggurat said:
Why does treating them as a woman require treating them as female? Why does treating them as male require treating them as a man?
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Telling them what restroom they can use, for starters. Although you've come right out and said that you don't believe they are sincere, and transgenderism is a lifestyle choice, and that we should discriminate against them, so I don't think we'll get too far here. Our starting assumptions are too disparate.
 
Thermal said:
Some of them don't think of themselves as males.
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That's their problem. They're still male whether they like it or not.
Thermal said:
I believe them. I believe they are sincere, and have mentioned the one I know personally and watched transition from troubled boy to well adjusted woman.
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That's your right, but no-one else should be forced to believe them.
Thermal said:
I think it is needlessly cruel to refer to her as a man when she looks and acts like a freaking model (she is very slightly built and fine featured, even as a teen boy).
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Good for him. It doesn't change the irrefutable, objective scientific reality that they are male, and will always be male.
 
smartcooky said:
That's their problem. They're still male whether they like it or not.

That's your right, but no-one else should be forced to believe them.

Good for him. It doesn't change the irrefutable, objective scientific reality that they are male, and will always be male.
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Absolutely, but irrelevant. The issue is whether we decide to be douchebags to them or treat them with respect and dignity. We all make our choices.
 
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