Cont: Electric Vehicles II

[Dabop]

We seem to be quite a long way from electric cars now...

Not really, we have already one offgrid home local to me that uses solar to recharge their EV...
I'm planning on buying an EV myself later this year (and again, completely offgrid with solar only for recharging)

If even the 'cheap' EV's like the Atto have more than sufficient range that people living literally in the middle of nowhere with an hours drive between towns feel comfortable driving them (and not only locally, but even interstate in Australia) then I can't see why most people should have 'range anxiety' when they are literally never out of the suburbs...

(added bonus for those local to me- our grid is very unreliable, and having an EV with V2H means reliable electricity when there are blackouts for those unlucky enough to not be offgrid....)

 

[jadebox]

The more this becomes widely known, the less we should hear the sneers about "what are you going to do in a power cut then?" from the anti-EV mob. As if you don't need electricity to operate a petrol pump.

Already I say, run my house on the electricity stored in the car, what will you do?

Before hurricane Milton hit our area, the ant-EV crowd was ranting about how we wouldn't be able to charge our cars. After the storm, electricity was restored fairly quickly, but gasoline was in short supply and there were long lines at gas stations for at least a week.

 

[Dabop]

Before hurricane Milton hit our area, the ant-EV crowd was ranting about how we wouldn't be able to charge our cars. After the storm, electricity was restored fairly quickly, but gasoline was in short supply and there were long lines at gas stations for at least a week.

If you have solar panels and an EV with V2H, you don't even need the grid present with the right charger, some can run even offgrid (Zappi is the best currently for this style of setup), so rather than the EV being a hinderance in such situations, it becomes a battery for your house (and unless you have a HUGE McMansion) will run for days without needing a charge, coupled with a home solar system (which many already have) and you could both run the house and drive the car (obviously not at the same time) indefinitely...
Lets see the ICErs do that...

 

[jadebox]

If you have solar panels and an EV with V2H, you don't even need the grid present with the right charger, some can run even offgrid ....

I have already described how I used my car's V2L capability after the storm. I would love to have solar if only for the coolness factor of running my car (and possibly more) on sunlight, but I don't think we will be in this house long enough for it to be a good investment.

Lets see the ICErs do that...

Well, we had our RV parked in the driveway and it has a nice generator and 60 gallons of gas in it ...

If the power has gone out for a longer time and it has become too hot in the house to sleep comfortably, we would have moved into the RV at night.

 

[The Don]

I have already described how I used my car's V2L capability after the storm. I would love to have solar if only for the coolness factor of running my car (and possibly more) on sunlight, but I don't think we will be in this house long enough for it to be a good investment.

Ah, the curse of cheap electricity.

Here in the UK, electricity prices are so high and solar prices are so low that the payback period on our 10 panel, 3.8kW solar array is around 4 years.

We've added a 9.8kWh battery to our installation and the payback on that is closer to 7 years, but I'll need to double check that based on how much of our electricity is bought overnight at lower rates.

 

[acbytesla]

Ah, the curse of cheap electricity.

Here in the UK, electricity prices are so high and solar prices are so low that the payback period on our 10 panel, 3.8kW solar array is around 4 years.

We've added a 9.8kWh battery to our installation and the payback on that is closer to 7 years, but I'll need to double check that based on how much of our electricity is bought overnight at lower rates.

I'm surprised it takes that long. I can buy 10ea 400 watt panels for $1000US and 10KW of batteries for S2,000US..

 

[The Don]

I'm surprised it takes that long. I can buy 10ea 400 watt panels for $1000US and 10KW of batteries for S2,000US..

Prices are a bit higher here, especially if you pay for professional installation as well.

I definitely could have bought the panels and inverter for much less than the total cost of the installation but they installed the panels on the workshop roof, did all the electrical work integrating it with our workshop consumer unit, did the liaison with the grid to get permission for the install and provided the necessary signoff for the grid, building control and for our own records so that potential house buyers know that the system is fit for purpose.

Likewise with the battery system.

They've also provided ongoing support for installation and the equipment firmwear.

 

[acbytesla]

Prices are a bit higher here, especially if you pay for professional installation as well.

I definitely could have bought the panels and inverter for much less than the total cost of the installation but they installed the panels on the workshop roof, did all the electrical work integrating it with our workshop consumer unit, did the liaison with the grid to get permission for the install and provided the necessary signoff for the grid, building control and for our own records so that potential house buyers know that the system is fit for purpose.

Likewise with the battery system.

They've also provided ongoing support for installation and the equipment firmwear.

It's definitely easier if someone else does it.

I like the satisfaction I get when I do it myself. Also I'm a notorious cheapskate. But not having a lot of money does that to you.

 

[acbytesla]

Did you know that Toyota is selling an SUV in China for $13,800 US? It has a range of 520 kilometers. That's pretty damn good.

 

[bruto]

I don't see any difference between old 'incandescent' bulbs and LED apart from lower running cost.
Why do you think they are 'inadequate'?

Wasting time here in Hanoi airport, will mention that incandescent bulbs have far less flicker than either CFL or led. Does not bother me, but does some, and may be worse in countries other than US, where frequency is 50 rather than 60 hz.

I happily switched to led because they can be dimmed and start in the cold, unlike CFL.

Thinking randomly, I wonder what will become of all the Easy Bake ovens!

 

[The Don]

Wasting time here in Hanoi airport, will mention that incandescent bulbs have far less flicker than either CFL or led. Does not bother me, but does some, and may be worse in countries other than US, where frequency is 50 rather than 60 hz.

I happily switched to led because they can be dimmed and start in the cold, unlike CFL.

Thinking randomly, I wonder what will become of all the Easy Bake ovens!

The only time I've had problems with LED flicker on our 50Hz supply are:

• When I've installed a non-dimmable LED bulb on a dimmer circuit and the dimmer is less and 100% and/or there is insufficient current to drive the dimmer control properly (a single incandescent bulb with 5 LED bulbs "fixed" the problem until I could change the switch)
• When a cheap LED bulb is on the way out and will fail in a few hours time

Of course I might just not be particularly sensitive to flicker.

 

[Rolfe]

Wasting time here in Hanoi airport, will mention that incandescent bulbs have far less flicker than either CFL or led. Does not bother me, but does some, and may be worse in countries other than US, where frequency is 50 rather than 60 hz.

I happily switched to led because they can be dimmed and start in the cold, unlike CFL.

Thinking randomly, I wonder what will become of all the Easy Bake ovens!

A neighbour of mine gets severe migraines from LED lights. The council have retained the old street lighting system in our road to accommodate her. When I switched to LEDs I gave her the remainder of my incandescent bulbs.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Did you know that Toyota is selling an SUV in China for $13,800 US? It has a range of 520 kilometers. That's pretty damn good.

Is it actually a Toyota? Someone mentioned hereabouts just recently that Toyota was badge-engineering Chinese EVs, having decided hydrogen is not the future they hoped.

 

[Rolfe]

Toyota are all over the place, still apparently pushing hydrogen and making EVs nobody in their right mind would want to buy. Also deeply committed to hybrids. They're going to cling on to burning fossil fuels to the last gasp. I wouldn't touch anything with their badge on with a barge pole.

 

[jadebox]

From LEDs back to EVs .... The LED lights in our bedroom flicker when our car is charging. I don't see any other lights in the house, almost all LEDs, being affected - just the ones in the ceiling fan light fixture in the bedroom. While a little annoying, it isn't a big deal because we are usually asleep and the lights are off when the car is charging.

 

[acbytesla]

From LEDs back to EVs .... The LED lights in our bedroom flicker when our car is charging. I don't see any other lights in the house, almost all LEDs, being affected - just the ones in the ceiling fan light fixture in the bedroom. While a little annoying, it isn't a big deal because we are usually asleep and the lights are off when the car is charging.

Interesting. I wonder why? LEDs haven't proved they are a perfect solution to lighting. They fail quicker and far more often than what was claimed. They are though, significantly more efficient than incandescent bulbs and generate light that most people find preferable to CFLs.

I switched to almost all LEDs. Had a problem with a bunch of them failing and replaced them. And considering what I spent on them when I installed them. I found that annoying. Fortunately the ones I replaced them with were much more affordable.

Don't own an EV yet.

 

[The Don]

Interesting. I wonder why? LEDs haven't proved they are a perfect solution to lighting. They fail quicker and far more often than what was claimed. They are though, significantly more efficient than incandescent bulbs and generate light that most people find preferable to CFLs.

I switched to almost all LEDs. Had a problem with a bunch of them failing and replaced them. And considering what I spent on them when I installed them. I found that annoying. Fortunately the ones I replaced them with were much more affordable.

Don't own an EV yet.

We have more than 30 LEDs installed in Don Towers and so far three failures in more than 10 years. We have one indoor bulb installed outside our front door which is on 24/7 and so far it's lasted all 10 years. By my reckoning that's well over 8,000 hours.

A lot of our lighting is GU10 spotlights and I was changing them on a regular basis before the switch to LEDs. The ones in the stairwell were a real pain in the ass to change, so far so good.

Maybe we're just lucky

 

[acbytesla]

We have more than 30 LEDs installed in Don Towers and so far three failures in more than 10 years. We have one indoor bulb installed outside our front door which is on 24/7 and so far it's lasted all 10 years. By my reckoning that's well over 8,000 hours.

A lot of our lighting is GU10 spotlights and I was changing them on a regular basis before the switch to LEDs. The ones in the stairwell were a real pain in the ass to change, so far so good.

Maybe we're just lucky

I have no idea. But I'm not the only one who has purchased LED bulbs that were presented as lasting 10, 20 thousand hours etc fail prematurely. There's a difference between what happens in a lab and real world. I'm not complaining. Companies often exaggerate when selling.

 

[novaphile]

LEDs require vented enclosures otherwise they overheat and fail.

Good luck finding vented enclosures. After a month of searching, I was able to find exactly one variety of 'enclosure' that I could use for all my ceiling mounted bulbs. (Open plastic bowl-shaped lamp shades with a ring of vent holes at the top.)

Not sure where you're getting the 'can't dim CFL' idea from.

I have dimmable CFLs in the downlights in my lounge room.

I've been running them since 2010 typically at 1/10th power, the lowest that the dimmer switches go.

NB. I write dates on the base of light bulbs when I install them and recently removed all the CFLs to clean them. I'm glad I did the cleaning, some of them had a thick layer of dust on the top surfaces, and in one case, that dust had cooked to a nasty looking brown colour, i.e. very close to causing a fire.

I went looking for the problem when I realised that I was replacing one year old LED bulbs, and was still using 14 year old CFL bulbs.

The lights were in 'batten fix' globes with no ventilation, the worst possible set up for LEDs.

 

[jadebox]

When we used incandescent bulbs in the recessed fixtures in our kitchen, the lights would turn off and on at somewhat regular intervals. There must be something in the fixtures that turns them off if they get too hot. Since switching to LEDs, the blinking stopped but we have had a few fail over the years.