Cont: Electric Vehicles II

[Rolfe]

Today marks 3 years since taking delivery of our 2022 Model 3 Long Range from the Knoxville, TN Delivery Center.

We’re coming up on 71,000 miles - it’s our daily driver and has taken us on maybe a dozen trips to Florida, as far as Key West, and numerous other trips to Indiana (several times), D.C., and one Canadian trip including Toronto and Ottawa.

To date, we’ve never had to wait for a Supercharger, and had only one that was performing sub-par. The vast majority of our charging is at home, using the Mobile Charger and a 240v 30a circuit that provides about 22 miles of range per hour.

There’s some popular opinion that Teslas are poorly made. Ours seems very well built and has only needed one repair: the rear defroster stopped working and it was repaired under warranty. The only maintenance beyond that was tires at 42,000 miles, washer fluid, and a cabin air filter. I also preemptively replaced the 12v battery 6 months ago, pleased that it was only $85 plus a little more for Tesla Mobile Service to come to the house to do the swap.

Battery degradation has been minimal. I can’t quantify it, but I don’t think we’ve lost more than 10%. We typically charge to 80%, giving about 260 miles of range. On the rare occasion we take it to 100% for a trip, it still shows a bit over 300 miles of range.

We’re both still loving the car and have no plans to replace it. The only downside is rather loud road noise on other-than-perfect road surfaces, though I hear newer models are improved in that area. And the depreciation has been brutal, though more power to Tesla for making their cars more affordable over time, and the longer we keep the car the less the depreciation will hurt.

Nice car. If I was having a Tesla I'd go for the red. But without a smaller hatchback, they're not even on my list.

 

[acbytesla]

I see what you mean. In Scotland the built environment doesn't really work like that. The roads follow the glens and the settlements are built on the flat(ter) bits. There are minor roads and tracks that ascend the sides of the hills in some places, but they are often dead ends leading to farms. For sure these are fun cycling routes, but it's not necessary to go up there to get around. Still quite jealous of your ability to have more powerful motors though!

Yeah. There are homes and roads in the valleys here and on the sides and the tops of the ridges. But I'm guessing that metropolitan Seattle is more densely built out than a lot of Scotland.

I can understand the jealousy. A 750w motor can make a huge difference when climbing a hill.

 

[Rolfe]

[Rolfe entertains thoughts of swapping out the motor for an illegal, higher-rated one...]

 

[The Don]

[Rolfe entertains thoughts of swapping out the motor for an illegal, higher-rated one...]

Rolfe had better not be caught by the rozzers if she does*.

* - although I don't think they're targeting more mature riders on apparently stock eBikes, they're more interested in "yooves" riding what are in effect EMotorbikes.

250w should be plenty unless you're trying to climb a steep hill on a heavily laden cargo bike.

 

[acbytesla]

Rolfe had better not be caught by the rozzers if she does*.

* - although I don't think they're targeting more mature riders on apparently stock eBikes, they're more interested in "yooves" riding what are in effect EMotorbikes.

250w should be plenty unless you're trying to climb a steep hill on a heavily laden cargo bike.

Sure if you weigh less than 150 lbs. I think a 250w motor is better than nothing. But if you weigh more than that, they are wholly inadequate for tackling even moderate hills. I seriously wouldn't buy one in this area.

 

[The Don]

Sure if you weigh less than 150 lbs. I think a 250w motor is better than nothing. But if you weigh more than that, they are wholly inadequate for tackling even moderate hills. I seriously wouldn't buy one in this area.

I appreciate your viewpoint.

Mrs Don's experience is different to yours. She has a 250w, 17kg eBike with relatively low torque. I has three power settings and even on setting two she finds it adequately powerful to ride here in the Wye Valley in general and to get up to Don Towers in particular. The last mile to Don Towers averages a 7% grade, the last third of a mile is the steepest and maxes out at close to 20%. Mrs Don manages this climb at a perfectly decent speed (if she's on setting 2) and at a positively infernal speed (if she's on setting 3)*.

That's not to say that she isn't working on the climb but it's the difference between having an enjoyable ride back home and pushing her bike up the steepest bit.

* - I'm reasonably handy on a bike and at setting 2 she's climbing at the same speed I am. To keep up with her on setting 3, I'm putting in a max effort.

 

[acbytesla]

I appreciate your viewpoint.

Mrs Don's experience is different to yours. She has a 250w, 17kg eBike with relatively low torque. I has three power settings and even on setting two she finds it adequately powerful to ride here in the Wye Valley in general and to get up to Don Towers in particular. The last mile to Don Towers averages a 7% grade, the last third of a mile is the steepest and maxes out at close to 20%. Mrs Don manages this climb at a perfectly decent speed (if she's on setting 2) and at a positively infernal speed (if she's on setting 3)*.

That's not to say that she isn't working on the climb but it's the difference between having an enjoyable ride back home and pushing her bike up the steepest bit.

* - I'm reasonably handy on a bike and at setting 2 she's climbing at the same speed I am. To keep up with her on setting 3, I'm putting in a max effort.

Everything is a variable. That is why I said "around here." The size of the rider and the type of riding they do is everything. I don't like using pedal assist at all. I just use the motor on a hill or when I'm in traffic. But I'm 220 lbs. The hills around here can sap any rider's will to live.

 

[Rolfe]

I appreciate your viewpoint.

Mrs Don's experience is different to yours. She has a 250w, 17kg eBike with relatively low torque. I has three power settings and even on setting two she finds it adequately powerful to ride here in the Wye Valley in general and to get up to Don Towers in particular. The last mile to Don Towers averages a 7% grade, the last third of a mile is the steepest and maxes out at close to 20%. Mrs Don manages this climb at a perfectly decent speed (if she's on setting 2) and at a positively infernal speed (if she's on setting 3)*.

That's not to say that she isn't working on the climb but it's the difference between having an enjoyable ride back home and pushing her bike up the steepest bit.

* - I'm reasonably handy on a bike and at setting 2 she's climbing at the same speed I am. To keep up with her on setting 3, I'm putting in a max effort.

Of course, getting back under 150lb would be a perfectly reasonable stratagem here. I don't know what gradients the hills I'm climbing are. There is an app with the bike which the lad in the shop said would display "everything", but I don't know what "everything" consists of, because the bike didn't come with a phone mount so the phone gets turned on, linked to the bike, I press start, then it's closed up and in the pannier!

Ribble cycles said to take the bike to a bike shop once I'd done 50 miles and get it checked over, especially its (really great) gears to make sure they're running in properly. I've done the 50 miles, or will have by tomorrow, so I'll make an appointment with the shop in Peebles to take it over there for that. At the same time I'll show them my shopping list of accessories to see what they can supply. At the moment it looks like this.

• replacement handlebar strut to bring the handlebars a bit higher
• lights
• basket
• chain guard
• prop stand
• phone mount

Ribble don't seem particularly interested in providing these things, or even supplying the bike with fixing points for things like a prop stand and a chain guard, but no dount Bspoke will be happy to oblige. Maybe then I'll be able to see things like the gradient I'm going up. I'm interested in seeing what sort of gradient I can cope with continuously on the top assist level and the lowest gear, before I have to get off and push the damn thing. I'm unfit at the moment, but I can feel myself getting fitter over these 50 miles so hopefully that will continue. The great thing is that I'm out riding, whereas wild horses wouldn't have got me to take my other bike out in January - or even February.

Here's the record of one of the first runs I did. I don't think I quite had the knack of the assist levels as I seem to have used it more than was really necessary.

 

[Rolfe]

Everything is a variable. That is why I said "around here." The size of the rider and the type of riding they do is everything. I don't like using pedal assist at all. I just use the motor on a hill or when I'm in traffic. But I'm 220 lbs. The hills around here can sap any rider's will to live.

Ah, there's the difference. On legal "bicycles" here, if you stop pedalling the assist cuts out. If you don't want to pedal, get a motorbike. I'm perfectly up for pedalling the thing though, and it's definitely improving my fitness.

I'm working my way up to getting myself up here in the summer. Some get-off-and-push will obviously be necessary, but hopefully not too much. (This is the road built in the early 18th century going over a pass 2,500 feet high, which was abandoned as a public road as being too damn dangerous. Official advice is not to go near the place between October and April inclusive.)



I think your sort of bikes might be legal here, but you'd have to tax and insure and MOT them as motorised transport if you wanted to ride them on the public road. Also, I doubt if I could lift a bike like that into my car. The Ribble is lighter than my previous bike, even with its battery and motor, and I can take it anywhere. I'm not confined to routes around home.

 

[acbytesla]

In Washington State, an e-bike is considered a motorcycle if its motor is more than 750 watts or if it can go faster than 20 miles per hour without pedaling.
Classification: E-bikes are classified as Class 1, 2, or 3
Speed: All e-bikes have a maximum speed of 20 mph when using motor assistance
Helmets: Riders of Class 3 e-bikes must wear a helmet
Licensing: No driver's license, vehicle registration, or insurance is required to operate an e-bike
Labels: Manufacturers and retailers must attach a label to new e-bikes that includes the classification number, top assisted speed, and motor wattage
Use: E-bike use is subject to restrictions on roads, trails, and public lands
E-bike classes
Class 1: E-assist only while pedaling, with a maximum speed of 20 mph
Class 2: Can be propelled solely by the motor, with a maximum speed of 20 mph
Class 3: E-assist only while pedaling, with a maximum speed of 28 mph, and has a speedometer
E-bike use on roads and trails
E-bikes are allowed on roads within State Parks, but must follow all park rules
Class 1 and Class 2 e-bikes are usually allowed on most bicycle paths on state and locally owned lands
Class 3 e-bikes are usually not allowed on shared-use pathways or sidewalks
E-bike use on public lands
E-bike use on public lands is subject to restrictions set by the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) and the Washington Department of Natural Resources (DNR)

 

[8enotto]

My son has a Kiwo that looks every bit a small motorbike. Small tires, lights, horn, alarm system and says it goes up to 30kmh and 40km.

It's so small and underpowered you would be killed on any major road. It has a 100kg max load and I would have to leave my shoes home to make that.
A bike style version is easier to pedal, taller and makes you more visible.
And it doesn't look like a dedicated motorized vehicle. No gray areas is important here.

 

[acbytesla]

My son has a Kiwo that looks every bit a small motorbike. Small tires, lights, horn, alarm system and says it goes up to 30kmh and 40km.

It's so small and underpowered you would be killed on any major road. It has a 100kg max load and I would have to leave my shoes home to make that.
A bike style version is easier to pedal, taller and makes you more visible.
And it doesn't look like a dedicated motorized vehicle. No gray areas is important here.

What the hell is that? I Googled it and couldn't find it.

 

[zooterkin]

What the hell is that? I Googled it and couldn't find it.

I found this - https://jing-pin.en.made-in-china.c...lectrica-Ebike-with-EEC-Electric-Bicycle.html

 

[8enotto]

What the hell is that? I Googled it and couldn't find it.

My son shoed me the Spanish website to Kiwo and they have quite a ñineup of products.

From a motorized bike or two to a glorified (golf) carT that claims pretty good specs. The utility side of them is cargo trikes that also boast a fairly good capacity.
Deduct the usual spec multiplier and it's OK.

But, the plastics are the usual ABS stuff, I suspect the frame tubing is the reason for a 100kg weight limit and it's thankfully low technology. Water resistance didn't appear to be present.
Fit and finish is good.

I would rather put an electric motor on my old pedal bike than rely on the Kiwo. That thing has carried me and 40 kilos of scrap multiple times, nothing bent or broke.

 

[Rolfe]

I just rode 11.67 miles on decent roads, at an average speed of 10.5 mph, in an ambient temperature of 4ºC. Although I wouldn't have called the route hilly, the app recorded a total ascent of 479.1 feet. I wouldn't have gone near that in February on my ordinary bike, in fact I'd have stayed in by the fire. With the e-bike I got some decent exercise without exhausting myself, and without having to get off the bike at all.

 

[The Don]

That's Mrs Don's experience as well. Even in the depths of winter she'll go out for a 15-20 mile ride with around 1,500 feet of climbing (it's lumpy around here and it's a 500 foot climb back to Don Towers regardless.

These days she doesn't use the motor at all until the climb gets to 2 or 3%. Level 2 is saved for over 5% unless she's trying to kill me on the long climb from Tintern. Her confidence and fitness are both improving rapidly.

Over the summer we did some longer, flatter rides and she'd often finish a 30+ mile ride with 75% battery remaining.

 

[8enotto]

For what its worth the Escooter my son has was a great gift from.his aunt. She researched as far as price and appearances for the most part. She did take note the claimed distances.

My son doesn't go anywhere alone, always with his mom or extended family. ( mom's fears )The greatest distances he would go are a few blocks to the corner store.
It's mainly for zipping around the yard it seems.

My needs are to carry yard tools or scrap metals, maybe pull a small trailer and go up to ten miles one way on sides of the main roads doing so. And then return of course.
An Ebike tractor/trailer one day and a quick ride the next.

 

[acbytesla]

This is an image of the hill I use to live on in Bothell, Washington. In the 10 years I lived there I never saw a single person ever ride up it. I doubt Lance Armstrong would want to tackle it. The image doesn’t do how steep it is justice. It has two common local nicknames. The first is Nike Hill because the top of it use to contain Nike nuclear missile silos. The second is mile high hill. This a direct route up the side of one of the many drumlins in Western Washington.

 

[Rolfe]

That's Mrs Don's experience as well. Even in the depths of winter she'll go out for a 15-20 mile ride with around 1,500 feet of climbing (it's lumpy around here and it's a 500 foot climb back to Don Towers regardless.

These days she doesn't use the motor at all until the climb gets to 2 or 3%. Level 2 is saved for over 5% unless she's trying to kill me on the long climb from Tintern. Her confidence and fitness are both improving rapidly.

Over the summer we did some longer, flatter rides and she'd often finish a 30+ mile ride with 75% battery remaining.

Yes, well, we know she's fit. I'm very pleased with how I'm getting on at the moment, and I'm happy to use the assist to avoid pushing myself too hard at the moment. I want to get off-road, but after that one shot at the old Roman road last week I'll wait till everything is a great deal less waterlogged. This afternoon I braved the traffic on the A702 for four or five miles, but if the Roman road was reasonably passable I could avoid having to do that.

I have an appointment on Tuesday to take the bike to Peebles to have its check-up and see what they can do in the way of accessories, so I'll be without it for a bit. Given the weather forecast I'm unlikely to care.

 

[Rolfe]

View attachment 58888
This is an image of the hill I use to live on in Bothell, Washington. In the 10 years I lived there I never saw a single person ever ride up it. I doubt Lance Armstrong would want to tackle it. The image doesn’t do how steep it is justice. It has two common local nicknames. The first is Nike Hill because the top of it use to contain Nike nuclear missile silos. The second is mile high hill. This a direct route up the side of one of the many drumlins in Western Washington.

I haven't yet failed to get up anything I've tackled, but I think I can see where nemesis is going to strike. Look at these contour lines.