Cont: Electric Vehicles II

[bruto]

The only time I've had problems with LED flicker on our 50Hz supply are:

• When I've installed a non-dimmable LED bulb on a dimmer circuit and the dimmer is less and 100% and/or there is insufficient current to drive the dimmer control properly (a single incandescent bulb with 5 LED bulbs "fixed" the problem until I could change the switch)
• When a cheap LED bulb is on the way out and will fail in a few hours time

Of course I might just not be particularly sensitive to flicker.

I've had good luck with LED's and very few failures, and am not sensitive to flicker. A lot of CFL's are non-dimmable, and I think in general the cheap ones one usually sees at least here in the US are not. In general the LED's default is dimmable, though the "strike" point is a little higher turning them on. They'll go lower if you go high first and turn them down. They do make more heat than CFL's, though, and don't last so well in unvented fixtures. But they're great here where in the dark season we often leave a hall light, etc. going when we expect to come home in the dark. Put an LED at half brightness, and it's almost nothing.

 

[BowlOfRed]

I have a boob light in the living room that was fine with most, but it destroys LED bulbs. I just bought some "enclosed fixture rated" bulbs, and one of those has lasted less time than the regulars (less than 2 months).

I don't like it anyway, so will probably just replace it with an LED fixture.

 

[8enotto]

My son got a Chinese electric motorbike for his birthday.
Four 12v lead acid batteries for 48v power, alarm system and all. It's interesting if not amazing.

The real problem, it can't be made road legal in México. Doesn't meet safety specs. It comes closer to UK electric bicycle law legal. He can use it for a run to the corner store in our home area but I couldn't take it down the main roads to my job. I could if it looked like a pedal bike instead of a motorbike.

I like it, just wish it could be road legal.

 

[acbytesla]

My son got a Chinese electric motorbike for his birthday.
Four 12v lead acid batteries for 48v power, alarm system and all. It's interesting if not amazing.

The real problem, it can't be made road legal in México. Doesn't meet safety specs. It comes closer to UK electric bicycle law legal. He can use it for a run to the corner store in our home area but I couldn't take it down the main roads to my job. I could if it looked like a pedal bike instead of a motorbike.

I like it, just wish it could be road legal.

Seriously? Are all electric bikes illegal in Mexico? Governments in the US are all over the place on regulations.

 

[zooterkin]

They are regulated in the UK, in theory. Bicycles can have an electrical assistance (either built in or added on), that operates when you pedal, and with a top speed of 15 mph. Anything more than that comes under motorbike licensing, I believe.

In practice, there are lots of electric bikes around, particularly in town centres in use by food delivery riders (Uber Eats, etc.). I'm not aware of the police taking serious action against them.

Electric scooters are not legal for use on the road or the pavement. The only legal use of them is in those areas where the local council has approved a hire scheme (run by companies like Lime and Voi), and only the scooters in the scheme are permitted. The government is looking at making private e-scooters legal on the road. https://cities-today.com/uk-moves-closer-towards-e-scooter-legalisation/

 

[bruto]

Just guessing here, but as far as I know in the US, there's a distinct difference between an electric bicycle and an electric motorcycle, in part depending on whether it has pedal propulsion, but also depending on top speed. They are classed in classes one through four. #1 is pedal assist (you must be pedaling to go);#2 is throttle assist, in which you can go without pedaling, but with a maximum speed of about 20 mph. #3 has a higher speed, may require a helmet, and may be restricted to roads only, and #4 has a higher speed yet and shares its class with mopeds, requiring registration. Only the first two are legally bicycles, and can thus be driven on the roads in accordance with bicycle laws, and need no additional rules, license or registration. In Vermont, #3 is still a bicycle when on the road, but must have a speedometer, and the rider must be 16 or over, and higher numbers are not bicycles by law.

But if a bike is legally a motorcycle, it must comply with all sorts of motor vehicle laws. It's likely Mexico's laws differ a little from ours, but a motorcycle here must be capable of maintaining highway speeds, and have a certain standard of lights, horn, brake light, and the like, since unlike a bicycle it is entitled to the whole traffic lane, including going on limited access highways, and must be able to function fully at night.

 

[acbytesla]

They are regulated in the UK, in theory. Bicycles can have an electrical assistance (either built in or added on), that operates when you pedal, and with a top speed of 15 mph. Anything more than that comes under motorbike licensing, I believe.

In practice, there are lots of electric bikes around, particularly in town centres in use by food delivery riders (Uber Eats, etc.). I'm not aware of the police taking serious action against them.

Electric scooters are not legal for use on the road or the pavement. The only legal use of them is in those areas where the local council has approved a hire scheme (run by companies like Lime and Voi), and only the scooters in the scheme are permitted. The government is looking at making private e-scooters legal on the road. https://cities-today.com/uk-moves-closer-towards-e-scooter-legalisation/

Just guessing here, but as far as I know in the US, there's a distinct difference between an electric bicycle and an electric motorcycle, in part depending on whether it has pedal propulsion, but also depending on top speed. They are classed in classes one through four. #1 is pedal assist (you must be pedaling to go);#2 is throttle assist, in which you can go without pedaling, but with a maximum speed of about 20 mph. #3 has a higher speed, may require a helmet, and may be restricted to roads only, and #4 has a higher speed yet and shares its class with mopeds, requiring registration. Only the first two are legally bicycles, and can thus be driven on the roads in accordance with bicycle laws, and need no additional rules, license or registration. In Vermont, #3 is still a bicycle when on the road, but must have a speedometer, and the rider must be 16 or over, and higher numbers are not bicycles by law.

But if a bike is legally a motorcycle, it must comply with all sorts of motor vehicle laws. It's likely Mexico's laws differ a little from ours, but a motorcycle here must be capable of maintaining highway speeds, and have a certain standard of lights, horn, brake light, and the like, since unlike a bicycle it is entitled to the whole traffic lane, including going on limited access highways, and must be able to function fully at night.

The regulations in the US is fragmented, from state to state, city to city. The power of the motor, pedal assist, top speed are all factors.

 

[Rolfe]

I have recently bought an e-bike, and it looks exactly like a normal bicycle unless you notice the unusually thick strut of the frame, and the (tiny) charging port.



As Zooterkin says, the limitations here are that the motor must cut out if you stop pedalling, and when you reach about 15 mph. There is another restriction, that the motor must have no more than 250 watts of power. I have read opinions that this last is discriminatory, because it discriminates against older, weaker and heavier riders by limiting the gradient they are able to climb. This opinion says that the maximum speed cut-out should be enough to ensure safety, in that riders are not being electrically assisted to go faster than an average rider might normally achieve, and that more power should be available for people who need it to get up the hills. I can see the logic of this, as I'm in the older and weaker class of rider. I have not yet met a hill that I was unable to climb on the bike, but having said that the steep sections were quite short and I was getting quite out of breath as I got to the point where the gradient lessened again. This was all on the road and things might be rather less favourable on gravel or indeed grass.

All in all though, I love the bike to bits. I cycled all the way up to the Baddinsgill reservoir, where that picture was taken, without dismounting, including one section steep enough that when I saw it coming I thought, no way in hell. Hopefully as spring advances I'll get a bit fitter and the "no way in hell" sections will become more routine. The great thing is that it's getting me out there on the bike. The roads round here are undulating enough to make any ride on a normal bike a bit of a chore on some sections, and catch me trying it in January! But when I know that I'll be able to make the hills without too much exertion and without getting off and pushing, I'll do it.

This bike is actually lighter than my previous bike, and better geared, and I've been running around the village on it without bothering to switch it on and finding it less effort than its predecessor (currently sulking in the garage). Light enough to lift into the car, with the front wheel off, so the world is my oyster. I can even recharge it from the car - the car isn't even going to notice 250 watt-hours, which is the bike battery's capacity.

Regarding delivery drivers in the city, I've seen them. I'm not convinced their bikes are illegal. These are mainly strong young men and the startling thing isn't the speed they're doing but the acceleration. A 250-watt motor will do that for someone who is already fit.

 

[zooterkin]

The giveaway is often that they're not pedalling, as well as going much faster than 15mph. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8vggkgzr2o

 

[Rolfe]

Ah, that wasn't true of the ones I saw in Sauchiehall Street.

 

[acbytesla]

I have recently bought an e-bike, and it looks exactly like a normal bicycle unless you notice the unusually thick strut of the frame, and the (tiny) charging port.

View attachment 58859

As Zooterkin says, the limitations here are that the motor must cut out if you stop pedalling, and when you reach about 15 mph. There is another restriction, that the motor must have no more than 250 watts of power. I have read opinions that this last is discriminatory, because it discriminates against older, weaker and heavier riders by limiting the gradient they are able to climb. This opinion says that the maximum speed cut-out should be enough to ensure safety, in that riders are not being electrically assisted to go faster than an average rider might normally achieve, and that more power should be available for people who need it to get up the hills. I can see the logic of this, as I'm in the older and weaker class of rider. I have not yet met a hill that I was unable to climb on the bike, but having said that the steep sections were quite short and I was getting quite out of breath as I got to the point where the gradient lessened again. This was all on the road and things might be rather less favourable on gravel or indeed grass.

All in all though, I love the bike to bits. I cycled all the way up to the Baddinsgill reservoir, where that picture was taken, without dismounting, including one section steep enough that when I saw it coming I thought, no way in hell. Hopefully as spring advances I'll get a bit fitter and the "no way in hell" sections will become more routine. The great thing is that it's getting me out there on the bike. The roads round here are undulating enough to make any ride on a normal bike a bit of a chore on some sections, and catch me trying it in January! But when I know that I'll be able to make the hills without too much exertion and without getting off and pushing, I'll do it.

This bike is actually lighter than my previous bike, and better geared, and I've been running around the village on it without bothering to switch it on and finding it less effort than its predecessor (currently sulking in the garage). Light enough to lift into the car, with the front wheel off, so the world is my oyster. I can even recharge it from the car - the car isn't even going to notice 250 watt-hours, which is the bike battery's capacity.

Regarding delivery drivers in the city, I've seen them. I'm not convinced their bikes are illegal. These are mainly strong young men and the startling thing isn't the speed they're doing but the acceleration. A 250-watt motor will do that for someone who is already fit.

That bike looks exactly what I'm interested in. Although be it with say a 750 watt motor. I like the Dutch style bikes. Unfortunately, we don't see many around here.

 

[Rolfe]

750 watt motor? You want to be able to go up the north face of the Eiger on it?

I drove to Lancashire for that bike - once for a test ride, then again to collect the bike when it was ready. 350-mile round trip each time. Apart from trusting something made in England a bit more than something that came in a box from China, it's good to know that if I'm really up against it for after-sales service I can chuck it back in the car and take it back to the manufacturer.

Here's how it was presented when I showed up to collect it.

 

[acbytesla]

750 watt motor? You want to be able to go up the north face of the Eiger on it?

Almost. LOL.

Have you ever been to the Seattle area? Hilly is an understatement. I assure you that there is nothing where you live that compares.

I drove to Lancashire for that bike - once for a test ride, then again to collect the bike when it was ready. 350-mile round trip each time. Apart from trusting something made in England a bit more than something that came in a box from China, it's good to know that if I'm really up against it for after-sales service I can chuck it back in the car and take it back to the manufacturer.

Here's how it was presented when I showed up to collect it.

The bike looks great.

But I wouldn't even consider a bike with less than a 500 watt motor. I've ridden 250 watt, 500 watt, 750, even bikes with a thousand watt motors. . You couldn't climb half the hills in Seattle with a 250 watt pedal assist motor. It isn't just about the hills or going fast. It's about the cyclist's weight and cargo.

 

[Rolfe]

I believe you. Scotland is a glaciated landscape which provides flat valley bottoms and long gently-sloping glens. We don't tend to build up on the mountain tops, or build public roads up there. Not that that's going to stop me trying to get up the Corrie Yairack pass in the summer. An example of a public road built in a spectacularly unwise place and eventually abandoned when they got tired of going up to retrieve the bodies every spring.

I'd go for a more powerful motor if I could, but it's not allowed. See above debate about discrimination. I've heard many Americans say what you just said. But I'm not getting on too badly with the bike I have.

 

[acbytesla]

I believe you. Scotland is a glaciated landscape which provides flat valley bottoms and long gently-sloping glens. We don't tend to build up on the mountain tops, or build public roads up there. Not that that's going to stop me trying to get up the Corrie Yairack pass in the summer. An example of a public road built in a spectacularly unwise place and eventually abandoned when they got tired of going up to retrieve the bodies every spring.

I'd go for a more powerful motor if I could, but it's not allowed. See above debate about discrimination. I've heard many Americans say what you just said. But I'm not getting on too badly with the bike I have.

This area was also heavily glaciated. The glaciers left long ridge lines called drumlins that run North and South. If you head East West, you face one steep hill after another. So you tend to ride up the side of the ridges as opposed to tackling them head on.

Washington State treats Ebikes with up to 750 watt motors as bicycles. With stricter regulations on bikes with motors larger than that

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Today marks 3 years since taking delivery of our 2022 Model 3 Long Range from the Knoxville, TN Delivery Center.

We’re coming up on 71,000 miles - it’s our daily driver and has taken us on maybe a dozen trips to Florida, as far as Key West, and numerous other trips to Indiana (several times), D.C., and one Canadian trip including Toronto and Ottawa.

To date, we’ve never had to wait for a Supercharger, and had only one that was performing sub-par. The vast majority of our charging is at home, using the Mobile Charger and a 240v 30a circuit that provides about 22 miles of range per hour.

There’s some popular opinion that Teslas are poorly made. Ours seems very well built and has only needed one repair: the rear defroster stopped working and it was repaired under warranty. The only maintenance beyond that was tires at 42,000 miles, washer fluid, and a cabin air filter. I also preemptively replaced the 12v battery 6 months ago, pleased that it was only $85 plus a little more for Tesla Mobile Service to come to the house to do the swap.

Battery degradation has been minimal. I can’t quantify it, but I don’t think we’ve lost more than 10%. We typically charge to 80%, giving about 260 miles of range. On the rare occasion we take it to 100% for a trip, it still shows a bit over 300 miles of range.

We’re both still loving the car and have no plans to replace it. The only downside is rather loud road noise on other-than-perfect road surfaces, though I hear newer models are improved in that area. And the depreciation has been brutal, though more power to Tesla for making their cars more affordable over time, and the longer we keep the car the less the depreciation will hurt.

 

[acbytesla]

Today marks 3 years since taking delivery of our 2022 Model 3 Long Range from the Knoxville, TN Delivery Center.

We’re coming up on 71,000 miles - it’s our daily driver and has taken us on maybe a dozen trips to Florida, as far as Key West, and numerous other trips to Indiana (several times), D.C., and one Canadian trip including Toronto and Ottawa.

To date, we’ve never had to wait for a Supercharger, and had only one that was performing sub-par. The vast majority of our charging is at home, using the Mobile Charger and a 240v 30a circuit that provides about 22 miles of range per hour.

There’s some popular opinion that Teslas are poorly made. Ours seems very well built and has only needed one repair: the rear defroster stopped working and it was repaired under warranty. The only maintenance beyond that was tires at 42,000 miles, washer fluid, and a cabin air filter. I also preemptively replaced the 12v battery 6 months ago, pleased that it was only $85 plus a little more for Tesla Mobile Service to come to the house to do the swap.

Battery degradation has been minimal. I can’t quantify it, but I don’t think we’ve lost more than 10%. We typically charge to 80%, giving about 260 miles of range. On the rare occasion we take it to 100% for a trip, it still shows a bit over 300 miles of range.

We’re both still loving the car and have no plans to replace it. The only downside is rather loud road noise on other-than-perfect road surfaces, though I hear newer models are improved in that area. And the depreciation has been brutal, though more power to Tesla for making their cars more affordable over time, and the longer we keep the car the less the depreciation will hurt.

Any idea how much the range has decreased since you bought it?

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Any idea how much the range has decreased since you bought it?

Kind of hard to say.

It’s almost universally accepted that Tesla’s range estimates were pretty optimistic when we bought ours, though recent published estimates seem more conservative. Ours was allegedly 358 miles, I think, but I don’t think that could be achieved in real world driving.

We so rarely even get close to our maximum range that any decrease would be hard to discern. When traveling, we rarely drive for more than about 2 1/2 to 3 hours at a time. At 70 mph that’s just over 200 miles at most. We try not to dip below 15% remaining to the next Supercharger, then charge for typically 20 to 25 minutes while we walk the dogs, snack, hit the restroom, etc. We typically only charge enough to have 15% remaining at the next stop, then rinse and repeat.

If I had to guess, our maximum real world range has maybe dropped from around 330 miles to about 310 miles. But that would be at 100% charge, which we very, very rarely do.

 

[Dabop]

The owner of the Atto 3 I test drove has taken his interstate several times since he bought it and found it quite 'usable' when doing so (longest trip he did so far was to Melbourne which is 22 hours of driving time and 2000km/1300 miles)
His Melbourne trip he recharged at home to 100% (BYD uses the LFP chemistry rather than the NMC Tesla uses for most of their vehicles, so they can be left at '100%' without issue)

The Melbourne trip he stopped every 3 hours (about 300-350km/200-220 miles) with about 20% range left, did a 25 min recharge back to 80% and was back on the road again (the Atto's one weakness in this case is it is an older design 2022, and the charge rate is slower than many newer ones can achieve)- there's no point waiting the extra 20 mins to get that last 20% in- it takes as long to put it in as it does to put the first 60% in... Did this all day until they pulled up to sleep and overnight charged it at the motel, ready to do it all over again the next day... He found that the 'extra charging time' really didn't add much if any time to his trip, he's my age and quite frankly, after 3 hours I'm looking for a loo and a leg stretch anyway...

With chargers readily available across Australia, people have no issues driving from practically anywhere to anywhere that an actual car can go (sure they can be limited in some rural areas, but it has to be a tiny 'widespot in the road in the middle of nowhere' before you won't find a charger... people have even driven Leafs across Australia from east to west and back again, as well as up and down the east coast- the newer Nissans at least have finally dropped the old style CHAdeMO plugs and gone CC2 Combo like everyone else, so all EVs can charge at any charger (The Tesla here uses the CCS2 Combo, same as everyone else, and you can charge at any charger, and other EV's can charge at a Tesla supercharger (all you need to do it is download the app, plug in your 'other brand' and initiate the charge from your phone)

Under 30 sec long (it works with any brand CCS2 charged car, and any V2, V3 or V4 Tesla charger (most of them here)- this is an Atto3 at a Tesla Supercharger in Sydney...

 

[Rolfe]

This area was also heavily glaciated. The glaciers left long ridge lines called drumlins that run North and South. If you head East West, you face one steep hill after another. So you tend to ride up the side of the ridges as opposed to tackling them head on.

Washington State treats Ebikes with up to 750 watt motors as bicycles. With stricter regulations on bikes with motors larger than that

I see what you mean. In Scotland the built environment doesn't really work like that. The roads follow the glens and the settlements are built on the flat(ter) bits. There are minor roads and tracks that ascend the sides of the hills in some places, but they are often dead ends leading to farms. For sure these are fun cycling routes, but it's not necessary to go up there to get around. Still quite jealous of your ability to have more powerful motors though!