Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (part 3)

[sackett]

But if we can't outlaw knives, what can we outlaw?

Oh, I know! Trausti knows too!

 

[Trausti]

But if we can't outlaw knives, what can we outlaw?

Oh, I know! Trausti knows too!

You can, you know, enforce the law and put criminals behind bars. But that might make criminals unhappy. Better to make policy on obviously incorrect assumptions than offend the poor widdle criminals.

 

[sackett]

You don't have to tell ME, but you can

You can, you know, enforce the law and put criminals behind bars. But that might make criminals unhappy. Better to make policy on obviously incorrect assumptions than offend the poor widdle criminals.

tell these gobblers what the correct assumption is here in this case right now.

 

[Bogative]

Then what is your position?

To disabuse the willfully ignorant.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Of the known shooters and suspects:

1 Latino
1 Asian
2 white
36 black

That's a lot of MAGA supporters.

 

[Shalamar]

Racists gonna racist.

 

[Bogative]

Racists gonna racist.

Reality is racist, apparently.

 

[arthwollipot]

Reality is racist, apparently.

You see in reality what you want to see.

 

[Norman Alexander]

The UK really needs a law against knife crime. That'll stop it.

Calls for a commission on knife crime in the black community

Does this mean they don't have the best table manners?

 

[Nessie]

https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/assembly/commission-on-knife-crime-in-black-community

"Despite making up only 13% of London’s total population, black Londoners account for 45% of London’s knife murder victims, 61% of knife murder perpetrators and 53% of knife crime perpetrators."

To really understand why that is, you need to look at which part of London's black population commit knife crime. I can guarantee it is not the educated, employed, socially successful black Londoners who see a bright future for themselves and their families. It is those who are from no hope backgrounds of poverty, unemployment, broken homes, substance misuse and gangs.

The same is true for white people.

 

[thaiboxerken]

How's the mass gun violence in the UK compare to the USA?

 

[Lothian]

How's the mass gun violence in the UK compare to the USA?

Mass shooting have killed more in America so far this year (2 weeks) than died in UK mass shootings in the last 13 years

 

[Thermal]

https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/assembly/commission-on-knife-crime-in-black-community

"Despite making up only 13% of London’s total population, black Londoners account for 45% of London’s knife murder victims, 61% of knife murder perpetrators and 53% of knife crime perpetrators."

To really understand why that is, you need to look at which part of London's black population commit knife crime. I can guarantee it is not the educated, employed, socially successful black Londoners who see a bright future for themselves and their families. It is those who are from no hope backgrounds of poverty, unemployment, broken homes, substance misuse and gangs.

The same is true for white people.

OK, and we hear that on this side of the pond, too. If black people make up 13% of the pop, but account for 61% of knife murderers, does that mean that black UKers are almost 5x more likely to live in poverty/broken homes etc? That's much worse than even in the States, if so, where black people are more like twice as likely to be in poverty, and yet 6x more likely to murder.

I mean, the poverty correlation with violent crime is undeniable, but it doesn't have full explanatory chops, mathematically. There's still a huge disparity that goes beyond being poor.

I'm inclined to think there is broad resentment against the mainstream that many feel shuts them out and treats them like second class citizens, and I've got a lot of sympathy for that. But saying "it's not race, it's income" falls a little flat.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Mass shooting have killed more in America so far this year (2 weeks) than died in UK mass shootings in the last 13 years

I wonder how many mass knivings happen in the UK. After all, the republican stance is that if the guns are taken away, the killings still happen with a different weapon.

 

[Thermal]

Seems like a good idea to keep trying to take away the tools and declare it a win, yet not address why people are so cool with murder in the first place. I'd rather have them, you know, not be ******* sociopaths in the first place, and let them have all the sport/hunting firearms they want.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Take the weapons away first, then address the underlying behavioral issues.

 

[Darat]

OK, and we hear that on this side of the pond, too. If black people make up 13% of the pop, but account for 61% of knife murderers, does that mean that black UKers are almost 5x more likely to live in poverty/broken homes etc? That's much worse than even in the States, if so, where black people are more like twice as likely to be in poverty, and yet 6x more likely to murder.

I mean, the poverty correlation with violent crime is undeniable, but it doesn't have full explanatory chops, mathematically. There's still a huge disparity that goes beyond being poor.

I'm inclined to think there is broad resentment against the mainstream that many feel shuts them out and treats them like second class citizens, and I've got a lot of sympathy for that. But saying "it's not race, it's income" falls a little flat.

Social Metrics Commission 2020 Report

...snip...

Poverty rates were higher for Black and Minority Ethnic families. Nearly half (46%, 900,000 people) of all people living in families where the household head is Black/African/Caribbean/Black British were in poverty, compared to just under one in five (19%, 10.7 million people) of those living in families where the head of household is White.

...snip...

There are large disparities depending on your ethnicity.

Your comment "...I'm inclined to think there is broad resentment against the mainstream that many feel shuts them out and treats them like second class citizens, and I've got a lot of sympathy for that. But saying "it's not race, it's income" falls a little flat...."

No one claims that poverty is the only factor, there are many factors that play into it. For example as you mention the persecution of the non-white population in London. We know for example that the police force is racist, we also know our justice system is racist, that non-white people face additional hurdles in employment etc. It's a nasty mix.

 

[Nessie]

OK, and we hear that on this side of the pond, too. If black people make up 13% of the pop, but account for 61% of knife murderers, does that mean that black UKers are almost 5x more likely to live in poverty/broken homes etc? That's much worse than even in the States, if so, where black people are more like twice as likely to be in poverty, and yet 6x more likely to murder.

I mean, the poverty correlation with violent crime is undeniable, but it doesn't have full explanatory chops, mathematically. There's still a huge disparity that goes beyond being poor.

I'm inclined to think there is broad resentment against the mainstream that many feel shuts them out and treats them like second class citizens, and I've got a lot of sympathy for that. But saying "it's not race, it's income" falls a little flat.

It's not just about being poor. More important factors in determining likely criminality are broken families, a lack of education, a lack of decent job prospect and risk of being sucked into joining a gang.

My policing career was dealing with 90% people who are white and it was those factors, rather than just being poor, that determined the chances of someone becoming a criminal.

 

[Thermal]

It's not just about being poor. More important factors in determining likely criminality are broken families, a lack of education, a lack of decent job prospect and risk of being sucked into joining a gang.

Well yeah, that's why I put poverty/ broken homes etc for brevity.

My policing career was dealing with 90% people who are white and it was those factors, rather than just being poor, that determined the chances of someone becoming a criminal.

OK, but you have said you are in Scotland, iirc? The Scot population self reports as "white" over 95% of the time. I would surely expect "dealing" with white people would be kind of overwhelmingly the norm? Or did you mean white knife murderers?

https://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/uploads/docs/report/2022/as_diversity_2022.pdf

 

[Thermal]

Social Metrics Commission 2020 Report





There are large disparities depending on your ethnicity.

Your comment "...I'm inclined to think there is broad resentment against the mainstream that many feel shuts them out and treats them like second class citizens, and I've got a lot of sympathy for that. But saying "it's not race, it's income" falls a little flat...."

No one claims that poverty is the only factor, there are many factors that play into it. For example as you mention the persecution of the non-white population in London. We know for example that the police force is racist, we also know our justice system is racist, that non-white people face additional hurdles in employment etc. It's a nasty mix.

Yeah, I get that, just surprised at the actual stats. Almost half of black led households? That's stunning.