Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (part 3)

[Norman Alexander]

'He got tired of the bullying,' classmates say of shooter

The Associated Press

Sisters Yesenia Roeder and Khamya Hall, both 17, said alongside their mother, Alita, that the 17-year-old classmate who police identified as the shooter had been bullied relentlessly since elementary school. That escalated recently, they said, when his younger sister started getting picked on, too. Officials at the school didn’t intervene, they said, and that was “the last straw” for the shooter.

“He was hurting. He got tired. He got tired of the bullying. He got tired of the harassment,” Yesenia Roeder Hall, 17, said. “Was it a smart idea to shoot up the school? No. God, no.”

Only in the USA - just add guns.

 

[Bogative]

Only in the USA - just add guns.

I'll ask again since you seem to have missed the question earlier. Which theories?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Republican response: "Thoughts and Prayers" and "We need to address mental health"


Also Republicans: "No funding for mental health care"

 

[Bogative]

Democrat response: "Gun crime is out of control, do something."

Also Democrat response: "Over incarceration. Racism!"

 

[Thermal]

Democrat response: "Gun crime is out of control, do something."

Also Democrat response: "Over incarceration. Racism!"

I don't think the Dem solution is to incarcerate. I think its to get the guns under reasonable control.

 

[Trausti]

I don't think the Dem solution is to incarcerate. I think its to get the guns under reasonable control.

But the solution is incarceration. Violent offenders will continue to commit violent offenses because that's just what they do.

 

[Blue Mountain]

But the solution is incarceration. Violent offenders will continue to commit violent offenses because that's just what they do.

No matter how many times you say this, it has been shown to be wrong time after time.

The truth is US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world and the highest in both the G7 and the OECD, while being solidly in the second quartile of the most violent countries.

According to World Population Review's Most Violent Countries list, the US is at 42nd place for violence, sharing space with Honduras, South Africa, Azerbaijan, and Algeria. Even war torn Haiti does better at 56. The most violent country in Europe is France in 106th place. Canada is way down the list at 151, and its incarceration rate is one-sixth that of the USA's.

But please don't let bothersome little things like facts intrude on your beliefs.

 

[Norman Alexander]

I'll ask again since you seem to have missed the question earlier. Which theories?

The theories, should you have missed them yourself, and I'm sure you haven't but just pretend you have, that consistent nationwide gun control reduces nationwide gun crime rates. There are many ways to do this, and they are not the only answer. But they are known to work.

 

[arthwollipot]

The dude who just shot up a school in Iowa had social media accounts with he/they pronouns, rainbow and transgender flags with the occasional "#genderfluid" hashtag.

Do you think that might have been a factor in their losing it and going postal with a gun?

Hint: did you know that transgender individuals have a higher suicide rate than cisgender people? Do you know why that is?

 

[Ron Obvious]

Do you think that might have been a factor in their losing it and going postal with a gun?

Hint: did you know that transgender individuals have a higher suicide rate than cisgender people? Do you know why that is?

Mental illnesses like gender dysphoria lead to higher suicide rates? Hardly a shock, but I suppose you want to blame everyone else for not playing along with their (note: correct pronoun in this case) delusions.

 

[Bogative]

Do you think that might have been a factor in their losing it and going postal with a gun?

Would you give the same consideration to a white supremacist who goes on a shooting spree because he perceives he is being bullied by minorities?

Hint: did you know that transgender individuals have a higher suicide rate than cisgender people? Do you know why that is?

Don't know, don't care.

 

[Thermal]

But the solution is incarceration. Violent offenders will continue to commit violent offenses because that's just what they do.

I'd argue that incarceration isn't the solution to anything. Locking people up in cages is pretty much a net negative across the board.

The solution, I'd venture, is to get widespread civilized. You know, like the other first world countries. Start by giving the poor access to health care, quality education, and meaningful employment opportunities. Of course, those are long game solutions, but if our silly asses had started doing so back in the 80s and 90s when it was getting pretty obvious, I don't think we'd be looking at our current charming social landscape.

The short term work to numb down gun violence is simple: adopt New Jersey's proven model. No carry, firearm cards, and here we are, down at the bottom of the list for both gun violence and incarceration rates. Keeping in mind, every single county in Jersey is designated urban. It works, man, and has for generations. Yet I can still own pretty much any gun I please. We all get +/- what we want, with minimal effort.

 

[arthwollipot]

Would you give the same consideration to a white supremacist who goes on a shooting spree because he perceives he is being bullied by minorities?

No, not unless there is a considerable body of evidence that they have been consistently verbally and physically assaulted at a similar rate that transgender people demonstrably are.

Don't know, don't care.

What a surprise.

 

[Bogative]

I posted this on November 6 after a fellow forum member accused me of ignoring certain types of mass shootings and only highlighting others:

I'll take that as a no, then. Since I knew you would have no interest in proving your own delusions wrong, I took it upon myself to start compiling the known shooters for the 4 days after the Maine shooting.

Anyone else want to join in? Several on this board have accused me of ignoring certain types of shooters to skew the numbers, here's your chance to back up those claims.

2 more suspects have been identified in 2 of the shootings.

The October 27 Little Rock, Arkansas shooting and October 28 Cumberland, Maryland shootings were both done by black males.

I will update the list below, feel free to contribute and show everyone all of these white mass shooters I keep ignoring.


18 mass shootings.
2 Latino males.
9 black males.



October 26 – Clinton, North Carolina – 5 killed – Drug-related

October 27 – Mansfield, Ohio – 2 killed, 4 wounded – House party
Black male – Cyrus J Ellerbe (Check back for more)
https://www.news5cleveland.com/news...-year-old-for-party-shooting-that-left-2-dead

October 27 – Little Rock, Arkansas – 1 killed, 4 wounded – Gas station parking lot
Black male – Kamarion Stokes
https://www.facebook.com/permalink....YD9aX9Y4PwHpZS574p1ijXkX4l&id=100064510014252

October 28 – Chicago, Illinois – 4 wounded – Drive-by

October 28 – Texarkana, Texas – 3 killed, 3 wounded
2 black males – Breoskii Warren & Devon Hayden
Two Arrested in Shooting that Left Three Dead | Texarkana Today

October 28 – Chula Vista, California – 4 wounded
Black male –
15-year-old suspect arrested after four shot at Otay Ranch Town Center during dispute

October 28 – Decatur, Georgia – 4 wounded – Drive-by

October 28 – Cumberland, Maryland – 1 killed, 3 wounded – Outside of club
Black male – Devonte Warfield
https://www.times-news.com/news/loc...cle_7423fd22-7781-11ee-9e1f-cfaa83282cea.html

October 28 – Las Cruces, New Mexico – 7 wounded – Drive-by

October 28 – Lake Charles, Louisiana – 6 wounded
Black male – Artavien Green
https://www.kalb.com/2023/10/30/suspect-apprehended-bruce-drive-shooting/

October 29 – Azusa, California – 4 wounded – House party

October 29 – Chicago, Illinois – 15 wounded
Black male – William A Groves
https://cwbchicago.com/2023/10/chic...hooting-wiliam-groves-charged-background.html

October 29 – Wiggins, Mississippi – 1 killed, 3 wounded
Black male – Montrell Malik Quinn II
https://www.wdam.com/2023/11/02/sus...n-deadly-weekend-shooting-195-fruitland-park/

October 29 – Tampa, Florida – 2 killed, 15 wounded
Black male/mixed-race – Tyrell Stephen Phillips
https://www.pinkvilla.com/trending/...and-charged-with-second-degree-murder-1255221
October 29 – Atlanta, Georgia – 4 wounded – Gas station parking lot

October 29 – Indianapolis, Indiana – 1 killed, 9 wounded – House party

October 29 – Dodge City, Kansas – 2 killed, 2 wounded
Latino male – Ricardo J. Cadena-Garcia
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...-shooting-dodge-city-man-arrested/ar-AA1j2MsK

October 29 – Wilson, North Carolina – 4 wounded
Latino male –Braulio Fuentes-Martinez
https://www.wect.com/2023/11/01/high-school-student-wanted-shooting-four-people-caught/

 

[Trausti]

No matter how many times you say this, it has been shown to be wrong time after time.

The truth is US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world and the highest in both the G7 and the OECD, while being solidly in the second quartile of the most violent countries.

According to World Population Review's Most Violent Countries list, the US is at 42nd place for violence, sharing space with Honduras, South Africa, Azerbaijan, and Algeria. Even war torn Haiti does better at 56. The most violent country in Europe is France in 106th place. Canada is way down the list at 151, and its incarceration rate is one-sixth that of the USA's.

But please don't let bothersome little things like facts intrude on your beliefs.

Goodness. At the bottom of every dumb progressive idea is the blank state. The ancients knew then that you are who you are. The tragedy is that we have to re-learn the lession.

The 1 % of the population accountable for 63 % of all violent crime convictions

The majority of violent crimes are perpetrated by a small number of persistent violent offenders, typically males, characterized by early onset of violent criminality, substance abuse, personality disorders, and nonviolent criminality.

 

[Trausti]

I'd argue that incarceration isn't the solution to anything. Locking people up in cages is pretty much a net negative across the board.

The solution, I'd venture, is to get widespread civilized. You know, like the other first world countries. Start by giving the poor access to health care, quality education, and meaningful employment opportunities. Of course, those are long game solutions, but if our silly asses had started doing so back in the 80s and 90s when it was getting pretty obvious, I don't think we'd be looking at our current charming social landscape.

The short term work to numb down gun violence is simple: adopt New Jersey's proven model. No carry, firearm cards, and here we are, down at the bottom of the list for both gun violence and incarceration rates. Keeping in mind, every single county in Jersey is designated urban. It works, man, and has for generations. Yet I can still own pretty much any gun I please. We all get +/- what we want, with minimal effort.

Firstly, poverty does not cause crime. I'm aware this is one of the left's most sacred beliefs. But it just isn't true. (It you lost your job would go about shooting up your neighborhood?) Secondly, as to New Jersey, it's all about demographics. The counties/cities with the highest % Black population have the highest gun homicide rates. This is true accross the country, whether it's a red, blue, or purple state.

 

[Bogative]

I miscounted on the above post.

10 black males.
2 Hispanic males.

 

[Thermal]

Firstly, poverty does not cause crime. I'm aware this is one of the left's most sacred beliefs. But it just isn't true.

Firstly, no one said it did, but the strong correlation is undeniable. More to the point, I wasn't talking about poverty. I'm talking about having the same opportunities for a normal life across the board. My primary and high schools solidly prepared me to advance. I want everyone to have that same strong jumping off point.

(It you lost your job would go about shooting up your neighborhood?)

I wouldn't have to, because of my solid background, which affords me opportunities. And btw, we are not talking about "going about shooting up the neighborhood". We are talking about treating people with dignity, so they don't feel marginalized and say "**** the mainstream, im locked out of that life", which is where I think you are going with this.

Secondly, as to New Jersey, it's all about demographics. The counties/cities with the highest % Black population have the highest gun homicide rates. This is true accross the country, whether it's a red, blue, or purple state.

Not at all relevant to anything I posted. My fair state is at the bottom of gun violence and incarceration stats, but by your "demographics" argument, we should be near the top.

 

[smartcooky]

Firstly, poverty does not cause crime. I'm aware this is one of the left's most sacred beliefs. But it just isn't true.

While it doesn cause crime, poverty is inexoably linked with crime\

Areas with the highest poverty rates also have the highest crime rates. This is a verifiable and undeniable fact.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1610/S00218/police-officers-views-on-poverty-and-crime.htm

While it would be wrong to suggest that all people who live with considerable financial constraint will offend, research and practice shows strong links between crime and poverty. The Dunedin life-course study of 3,000 New Zealanders (and other research) shows, people from low socio-economic backgrounds are three times more likely to commit crime than those from wealthy families. Official crime rates are always more elevated in poorer communities, on both sides of the coin: victimisation rates are higher amongst the poor, and the poor are more likely to be arrested and convicted for offences. And, of course, social statistics in New Zealand strongly suggest that poverty is racialised: Māori and Pacific peoples experience ongoing, disproportionate levels of poverty.

It doesn’t take much to work out why this is so – there are a range of drivers. For young people who have grown up in violent communities, where constant physical self-defence is the only means of survival, acts of violence are an ingrained and apparently logical response to threats and challenges. For others, especially people with low self-esteem and limited work skills – and in areas where there are few jobs available – crime represents one of the few relevant sources of income and status. Children growing up in poorer households may be more vulnerable to some forms of maltreatment, which they then recycle, as learned behaviour, in their own parenting. They also experience transience, because their parents shift home in search of decent housing or work, which makes it hard for children to form lasting bonds; and they may not receive enough love and attention from overworked and chronically stressed parents.
​

The facts are simple... hungry, destitute people are more like to steal to survive than people who live in wealthy communities will steal to survive. This is straightforward human nature, any first year social worker or criminologist can explain this to you.

 

[stanfr]

Goodness. At the bottom of every dumb progressive idea is the blank state. The ancients knew then that you are who you are. The tragedy is that we have to re-learn the lession.

The 1 % of the population accountable for 63 % of all violent crime convictions

Huh? Why are you citing a study on Sweden to respond to a comment about the U.S.? Strange.

Firstly, poverty does not cause crime. I'm aware this is one of the left's most sacred beliefs. But it just isn't true. (It you lost your job would go about shooting up your neighborhood?) Secondly, as to New Jersey, it's all about demographics. The counties/cities with the highest % Black population have the highest gun homicide rates. This is true accross the country, whether it's a red, blue, or purple state.

Well poverty per se does not 'cause' crime but all of the not-so-joyous things that go with poverty do. I wish I could have taken you on a tour in the 90s in NY when I worked as a legal aid attorney, I could have shown you first hand how poverty results in crime. (and incidentally, drugs--I was strongly pro-decriminalize before that job stint--not so much after it ) And of course there is a strong correlation between poverty and minority population in the U.S., go figure...