Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire part II

Status
Not open for further replies.
phiwum said:
It is potential or latent pressure in that case. Just as dangerous in the right situations.
Click to expand...

Potential pressure :confused:

The fuel will liquify almost immediately, and not be anywhere near as combustible. The pressure in the cylinders will bleed off pretty quickly.

ETA: Also... .puncturing a combustion chamber is gonna take one helluva big piece of lithium ion "shrapnel".

ETA2: I think my sarcasm detector was malfunctioning lol
 
Last edited:
So... the IRA put lithium-ion batteries inside the compression chamber of a diesel engine to distract us from the forged VIN plates. Very sneaky...
 
Vixen said:
...

So, all a car enthusiast needs to modify a diesel into a hybrid is the hybrid battery and some mechanical know how. Plus, of course, you need the relevant permissions and approval from DVLA to reregister it.
Click to expand...

Well this suggests to me that we can add 'hybrid vehicles' to the extremely long list of things that Vixen doesn't know anything about.

Here's the list of things that you have to change to convert a diesel Outlander to a hybrid Outlander (like mine).

1. Completely different engine. All the bearings in the new engine have to be ceramic coated. (Bonus points for anyone who knows why.)

2. Purpose-built GKN multi-mode e-Transmission (to do the job of sharing power to/from the engine including starting the engine via the generator.)

For those who are interested, here's a youtube showing how that piece of kit works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rntjceP-XPE

3. New electronics and generator (which does the job of starting the engine via the e-T as well as charging the battery).

4. New computers

5. Removal/discard of the entire drive train. (Gear box, transfer cases, differentials, drive shafts)

6. Completely new electric motors (2)

7. Completely new transfer cases (one per motor to spit the drive between each pair of wheels) and shafts/axles to connect between those TCs and the wheels.

8. The traction battery (the only part that Vixen knows about)

9. High voltage power system (the giant orange cables that carry traction power around the vehicle)

Note that there are also quite significant modifications to the body and floor pan to accommodate the traction battery and the two extra motors (the electric ones).

I've certainly not heard of anyone converting a diesel vehicle into a hybrid diesel/electric...

My instinct is that you'd save about thirty thousand pounds by just buying an existing one.

(Assuming that someone has made a kit for the conversion. If you have to pay GKN to make the e-T from scratch, and other engineering companies to design and build all the electronics and other kit for you from scratch, that extra cost for doing it yourself would probably jump up to about one hundred thousand pounds.)
 
^
Hey, be fair! Vixen covered all that with her comment "and some mechanical know how" ;)
 
novaphile said:
... Completely different engine. All the bearings in the new engine have to be ceramic coated. (Bonus points for anyone who knows why.)
Click to expand...

I don't know why but you have piqued my curiosity. Is it because of the increased number of start ups? (But then lots of newish cars have auto stop/start so perhaps not.)
 
GlennB said:
Traficom is Finnish. You can't get all those details online in the UK.
Click to expand...
Nor can you actually get the details Vixen claimed in Finland either. Finland, as an EU member, complies fully with GDPR, implemented in domestic law via their Data Protection Act 2019.
 
catsmate said:
Nor can you actually get the details Vixen claimed in Finland either. Finland, as an EU member, complies fully with GDPR, implemented in domestic law via their Data Protection Act 2019.
Click to expand...

Cheers. Interesting!
 
novaphile said:
Well this suggests to me that we can add 'hybrid vehicles' to the extremely long list of things that Vixen doesn't know anything about.

Here's the list of things that you have to change to convert a diesel Outlander to a hybrid Outlander (like mine).

. Completely different engine. All the bearings in the new engine have to be ceramic coated. (Bonus points for anyone who knows why.)
Click to expand...

Lack of oil lubrication when running on electric power?

2. Purpose-built GKN multi-mode e-Transmission (to do the job of sharing power to/from the engine including starting the engine via the generator.)

For those who are interested, here's a youtube showing how that piece of kit works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rntjceP-XPE

3. New electronics and generator (which does the job of starting the engine via the e-T as well as charging the battery).

4. New computers

5. Removal/discard of the entire drive train. (Gear box, transfer cases, differentials, drive shafts)

6. Completely new electric motors (2)

7. Completely new transfer cases (one per motor to spit the drive between each pair of wheels) and shafts/axles to connect between those TCs and the wheels.

8. The traction battery (the only part that Vixen knows about)

9. High voltage power system (the giant orange cables that carry traction power around the vehicle)

Note that there are also quite significant modifications to the body and floor pan to accommodate the traction battery and the two extra motors (the electric ones).

I've certainly not heard of anyone converting a diesel vehicle into a hybrid diesel/electric...

My instinct is that you'd save about thirty thousand pounds by just buying an existing one.

(Assuming that someone has made a kit for the conversion. If you have to pay GKN to make the e-T from scratch, and other engineering companies to design and build all the electronics and other kit for you from scratch, that extra cost for doing it yourself would probably jump up to about one hundred thousand pounds.)
Click to expand...

Backyard tinkerers, mate. It's just like fixing a toaster. No, really.
 
Foster Zygote said:
You're like some Apollo hoaxer going on about the Van Allen radiation belts, with a completely overblown misconception of the phenomenon. Li-ion battery packs don't have Michael Bay style antimatter meltdowns like you obviously imagine. They don't melt through concrete floors and consume whole parking garages like some runaway fusion reaction. Li-ion batteries are hard to extinguish, but they don't burn any worse than an ICE vehicle. Ironically, for your argument, diesel burns hotter than gasoline, making the diesel Land Rover you're trying to dismiss as harmless about the worst thing that could have caught fire in that location, especially if it had a fairly full fuel tank.
Click to expand...

This guy here captured the moment a car fell through the floor bursting into a huge fireball. Stop being in denial.


https://x.com/RobsonOReardon/status/1711868144438927380?s=20


"Robson O'Reardon��
@RobsonOReardon
Looks like the whole car park has just fallen down through the flames!

#LutonAirport"

Note the time: 23:15 BST - less than two hours after a major incident was declared. (Which was 21:38.)

Liverpool ECHO car park, King's Dock did not actually collapse like this, although floors sunk in the middle.
 
phiwum said:
Oh? Like this hybrid vehicle on fire?

[qimg]https://scx1.b-cdn.net/csz/news/800a/2022/a-ford-fusion-hybrid-v.jpg[/qimg]

Classic gray smoke, right?

Anyway, is it your suggestion that the battery didn't catch any diesel on fire by the time this photo was taken? You say there is no smoke coming from the front in the photo below, but how can you tell? The photo is from the rear and the presence or absence of smoke from the engine compartment is obscured.

(Oops. I don't know how to link to her image, but it is the upper image in this post.)

If the vehicle is a diesel hybrid, then the diesel has to burn at some point. If the absence of black smoke is evidence it's not a diesel ICE, then it is also evidence that either it's not a diesel hybrid or the diesel hasn't caught yet. But the car is well aflame, so the latter seems unlikely to me.



Ah. So when was the fuel tank ruptured? Was it before or after this image was taken? If before, you have a problem, of course, but if after, then you seem awfully confident of an event that was not witnessed as far as we know.



If all this were true and an amateur like you can deduce it from just a few still images, then clearly the fire brigade would have made the same inferences. Hence, when they say they believe it's a diesel (and hence, implicitly, not a hybrid), they are lying whether they add "pending verification" or not.

ETA: It's not that I doubt that diesel fires are often black. It just seems plausible to me that smoke color can vary due to a lot of factors, including the particular position of the photographer. Here's a big diesel engine burning and the smoke doesn't look particularly black.

[qimg]http://speednik.com/files/2014/06/10368943_708567769223116_4233148723253151924_o-1-640x480.jpg[/qimg]
Click to expand...

Those ones obviously reached the fuel tank, hence the heavy hydrocarbons. The picture in the CCTV does not show this type of smoke as of that stage.
 
phiwum said:
I thought he was arrested in order to deflect any blame Land Rover might face (on the same day the fire brigade attributed the fire to "vehicle fault", but whatever).

Anyway, it's possible he really did leave immediately after his car caught fire and it's possible that he was arrested on the day he returned. It's possible, but we haven't any reason to think it's so yet. And if it is so, then all your theories that he was arrested as a distraction fall apart, because leaving the scene of what turned out to be a terrible fire caused by the driver's vehicle seems like a good reason to arrest the driver. Especially if the driver didn't call the fire brigade before leaving.

Again, we don't know any of this is the case, but simply the possibility that it is so is enough to weaken the claim that the arrest must have been a mere distraction.
Click to expand...


It is not mutually exclusive for him to be under suspicion of criminal damage and at the same time the fire 'was caused by a faulty vehicle'. This is what you have been told officially.

Imagine if the fault was Jaguar Land Rover's all along and they tried to pin it on this poor guy whose only 'crime' was to jump out of THEIR defective name-protected vehicle.
 
phiwum said:
Blame the reporter without evidence all you like. The excerpt did not say or imply "almost immediately".



Different buildings and different situations are, I think, different. The South Tower collapsed first on 9/11 despite being hit second. In total, the North Tower lasted more than 50% longer after its impact than the South Tower lasted after its own. So it goes.
Click to expand...

From this link here, you can see that the building was completely ablaze on all levels within one and a half hours. In the Liverpool ECHO car park fire, after two hours it had only spread to the next floor up.

https://x.com/RobsonOReardon/status/1711868144438927380?s=20
 
Last edited:
catsmate said:
Nor can you actually get the details Vixen claimed in Finland either. Finland, as an EU member, complies fully with GDPR, implemented in domestic law via their Data Protection Act 2019.
Click to expand...

What is this service here then?

https://02rekkari.fi/?gad=1&gclid=C...BAlFzG39S4maICgDtPMBB2tKP3DWnEHoaAgwIEALw_wcB

Last I studied the DPA and ICO requirements, my understanding is that whilst keeping personal records of someone has to be done with their consent, there is no breach of the privacy laws by simply keeping a list of names and addresses.


Here, you can ring up the population centre and request anyone's address.

The UK DVLA's inability to give you information of the owner from the number plate is probably more to do with 'cant be bothered' than any concern about GDPR or 'security'.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom