The Bible is a Human Artifice!!!

xjx388 said:
No, the Jewish people do not actually believe that the Torah was literally written by God ...
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This guy would beg to differ...

And he also rives asunder the claims made here and here too.

start @minute 8:30




And also making the below only true if he meant it as a quote from me.

Thermal said:
...and...cut! That's a wrap.
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QED!!!


Nevertheless... I must tip my hat to the wily red herrings so far....
[imgw=90]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/5128262c750038bf97.jpg[/imgw]:th:

Because as I said repeatedly... the fact that the Bible claims that YHWH wrote anything at all in the language of the people he personally tried to genocide and ethnically cleanse off of the face of earth and using a flawed and incomplete abjad of yet another people he loathed... is proof that the Bible is nothing but perfidy even before one takes into account anything else it says...


.
 
Leumas said:
... the fact that the Bible claims that YHWH wrote anything at all in the language of the people he personally tried to genocide and ethnically cleanse off of the face of earth and using a flawed and incomplete abjad of yet another people he loathed... is proof that the Bible is nothing but perfidy even before one takes into account anything else it says...
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That is an argument from emotion, not proof. You are not approaching this logically.
 
Leumas said:
And subsequently showing that it is not a 20th century fabrication and the statements below are arrantly false...
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Thermal said:
Yup. In this case, a 20th century author who spun a narrative by rewriting a cool story while, by its own admission, never quoting older works[/I
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Just going to point out your latest bald-faced lie, using your own cited source, from the About This Text sidebar menu and linked below:

Leamus' Citation said:
Legends of the Jews is an original synthesis of a vast amount of midrashim from rabbinic literature and other ancient sources compiled by Rabbi Louis Ginzberg in the early 20th century. Originally written in German, the book begins with creation of the world and contains stories through the period of Esther. Ginzberg did not quote midrashim, but rather paraphrased and rewrote them into one continuous narrative
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https://www.sefaria.org/Legends_of_the_Jews.1.1.1-2?lang=bi&with=About&lang2=en

That, Leamus, is called a "proof". You'll note it shows clearly that you have been posting lies. It is no longer a question of you simply not understanding what you hastily google, cut, paste, and repost.

QEMFD!!!
 
Apathia said:
...
BTW do we actually have anyone here who believes God wrote the Pentateuch on stone tablets?...
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Yes... this guy...

​


Which also rives to smithereens this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post

Rendering them all arrant nonsense.
 
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Leumas said:
Ah... thanks for seconding what I said ...




And subsequently showing that it is not a 20th century fabrication and the statements below are arrantly false...









Here are a few of them that do...

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First off, I’m not sitting through a whole hour plus lecture on esoteric Jewish beliefs.

Luckily, the first one you linked to makes it very clear very quickly what they are talking about here: Moses received the Commandments (apparently there are 613 of them!) on Mount Sinai NOT the 5 Books of Moses. There are many meanings to the word “Torah” and they mean the law in this context.

So no, they don’t believe the actual 5 Books of Moses (one definition of Torah) which is part of the OT were written by God. They believe God gave Moses the law on Mount Sinai. The Books of Moses were written by people recording the events that happened.

My point stands: the Bible was written by humans and everyone acknowledges this plain fact. They may believe it was divinely inspired and that the spiritual truths revealed therein are inerrant and eternal, but that’s not the same thing at all.

If you are going to argue about the faith of other people, you would do well to learn the difference between allegory and literal truth.
 
xjx388 said:
First off, I’m not sitting through a whole hour plus lecture on esoteric Jewish beliefs. <snip nonsense>
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Pity... because if you did you would see that he makes arrant nonsense out of the rest of the claims in your post.... and the other posts you made... and you may find the other videos do the same too....
 
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Thermal said:
Originally Posted by Leamus' [SIC] Citation
Legends of the Jews is an original synthesis of a vast amount of midrashim from rabbinic literature and other ancient sources compiled by Rabbi Louis Ginzberg in the early 20th century. Originally written in German, the book begins with creation of the world and contains stories through the period of Esther. Ginzberg did not quote midrashim, but rather paraphrased and rewrote them into one continuous narrative
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I suggest you read carefully the quoted part... it is not saying what you think it is saying.... read it carefully ...

Hint 1: You may want to look up the words "ancient" and "synthesis" and "midrashim".

Hint 2: you may want to pause for a second right after the highlighted part... you might then see where you misunderstood what is being said.
 
Leumas said:
Indeed... but what makes it even more so is that this is all a huge red herring.

The OP is about the fact that the bible is written in Canaanite syntax and semantics using the Aramaic Abjad (script).

Now a christian thinks his New Tall tales are part of the bible... I do not... the bible to me is the T.N.K. (i.e. Tanakh).... but as a christian they want to jump in and throw a red herring about their fairy tales being written in Greek.
...
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Er, dude, do you read what you post? You're the first to mention the NT books in only the 6th post in this thread, explicitly referring to them as part of the bible:

Leumas said:
Evidently you need to read the bible...

  • Exodus 24:12 And YHWH said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.
  • Exodus 34:1 And YHWH said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
  • Exodus 34:27-28 And YHWH said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with YHWH forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
  • Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
  • Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
  • John 10:34-35 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
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zooterkin said:
Er, dude, do you read what you post? You're the first to mention the NT books in only the 6th post in this thread, explicitly referring to them as part of the bible:
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I posted those verses to rebut the denial below... and thus I included the Jesus quotes out of the New Tall tales to prove that even Jesus said so.... maybe it is my fault in assuming that people know that what Jesus said predated the New Tall tales and thus making the New Tall tales obviously not part of what is being talked about.

theprestige said:
Leumas said:
The Bible itself claims it is written by the finger of YHWH on tablets and handed over to Moses... and fundamentalist Jews believe it and aver and avow it... and so do most of the 2.5 Billion Christians... and Jesus says so in the New Tall tales.
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No, it most certainly does not claim this.
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zooterkin said:
Did you overlook the highlighted word? Is that Tom Bradford a member here?
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Is there a way to know... he might be using a pseudonym... but it does not matter does it... does it have to be part of the club or in the tent of the tribe to count??? The assertion was ....
xjx388 said:
Regardless of all that, I can’t think of one denomination or even small splinter cult that believes the Bible was literally written by God
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Leumas said:
I posted those verses in to rebut the denial below... and thus I included the Jesus quotes out of the New Tall tales
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Indeed. And, as I said, referring to them as part of The Bible (your capitalisation, in the thread title). Is it anyone wonder that people are unclear what you mean when you say The Bible?
 
Leumas said:
Is there a way to know... he might be using a pseudonym... but it does not matter does it... does it have to be part of the club or in the tent of the tribe to count???
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To answer the question, yes, it does need to be someone here.


The assertion was ....
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That's a completely different assertion in a completely different post by a completely different member.
 
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zooterkin said:
Indeed. And, as I said, referring to them as part of The Bible (your capitalisation, in the thread title). Is it anyone wonder that people are unclear what you mean when you say The Bible?
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Yes... it might be my fault in assuming that people know that what Jesus said predated the New Tall tales and thus making the New Tall tales obviously not part of what is being talked about.

Also it might be my mistake that I assume that people know which bible one is talking about when this bible has
  • a deity who genocides and hates Canaanites...
  • and who talked to an Egyptian courtier
  • and gave his words to runaway slaves who were there in Egypt for 430 years
  • and who were descended from 70 Sumerian individuals
  • and this deity's name is YHWH
  • and the Egyptian courtier's name is Moses
  • and the ones who believe this bible are fundamentalist Jews and Christians
  • and even Jesus is mentioned as having believed in it according to the NT

Leumas said:
The Bible itself claims it is written by the finger of YHWH on tablets and handed over to Moses... and fundamentalist Jews believe it and aver and avow it... and so do most of the 2.5 Billion Christians... and Jesus says so in the New Tall tales.
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My mistake for assuming that when I say New Tall tales and Jesus saying things about a bible then it is obvious that the bible Jesus was talking about is not the New Tall tales written about him talking about the bible 100 years after he said what he said about the bible.
 
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Leumas said:
Yes... it might be my fault in assuming that people know that what Jesus said predated the New Tall tales and thus making the New Tall tales obviously not part of what is being talked about.
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Er, what?

You gave NT quotes as being from the bible, then rail against some unspecified christian who refers to the NT as being part of the bible. (I'm not clear who it is that you think is a christian, btw.)



Anyway, to step back, who do you think you're arguing with? Who are you trying to convince?
 
zooterkin said:
....
Who are you trying to convince?
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No one...


zooterkin said:
....
who do you think you're arguing with?
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I am not arguing with anyone... I am rebutting anyone who argues with me...

For example this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post
 
Leumas said:
No one...




I am not arguing with anyone... I am rebutting anyone who argues with me...

For example this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post and this post
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Do you think anyone is going to follow those links?

The chances of anyone in this thread being Christian are pretty small (though not non-zero); the chances of anyone believing that the bible (whichever definition you happen to be using today) is literally the word of God, written on stone tables, are vanishingly small. I would hazard a guess that there is no-one reading this thread who disagrees with the statement that the bible (whichever definition...) was written by men.
 
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