The Bible is a Human Artifice!!!

Do you think anyone is going to follow those links?

I have no idea ... if I were to self-project myself onto others I would say many... but I have learned long ago to not do that.

The chances of anyone in this thread being Christian are pretty small (though not non-zero);

How about Jewish or Muslim or Hindu or Atheist who does not know everything there is to know???


the chances of anyone believing that the bible (whichever definition you happen to be using today) is literally the word of God, written on stone tables, are vanishingly small.


Is this Forum only for members to look at things in it??? Or can someone who is not a member also read threads???

I know the answer to the latter question is Yes.... so how do you know who might be reading things here??


I would hazard a guess that there is no-one reading this thread who disagrees with the statement that the bible (whichever definition...) was written by men.


Maybe this Rabbi or his acolytes or anyone who likes him or even wants to rebut him or thinks like him might perchance read this thread and perhaps be disabused of his delusions... no???

Or are you saying that this Forum is so limited that only some of its members only would ever bother to glance at anything in it???

Maybe you would like to hear some of his delusions... there are a few doozies there... can you see how the OP might help rebut them?

 
Last edited:
First off, I’m not sitting through a whole hour plus lecture on esoteric Jewish beliefs. <snip nonsense>


Pity... because if you did you would see that he makes arrant nonsense out of the rest of the claims in your post.... and the other posts you made... and you may find the other videos do the same too....
You snipped the wrong "nonsense". I have fixed it for you.
 
In about 3,000 years we can have a thread about how the US constitution could not have been written by its founders as it was first written in the now lost ancient language of their enemies the English.
 
In about 3,000 years we can have a thread about how the US constitution could not have been written by its founders as it was first written in the now lost ancient language of their enemies the English.

Honestly if this business of using the enemy's language were a real problem for the authors of the Bible, they would have included a Just So Story that justified it. Probably something about how they were commanded by God to eradicate the sinners that were befouling His holy language, and that once those evil tribes were removed from the face of earth, the Chosen People were blessed with the use of that holy language to sing God's praises forevermore.

But no such passages exist. Because it's not actually a problem for anyone.
 
Everything in the bible is a lie. How do I know? Because the bible tells me so.
 
In about 3,000 years we can have a thread about how the US constitution could not have been written by its founders as it was first written in the now lost ancient language of their enemies the English.

Your false analogy fails in so many ways...
  1. Where does it claim in the USA constitution that it is written by the hand of God???
  2. Is it written in English syntax and semantics but using the Arabic Abjad???
  3. Was James Madison an English speaker or not?
  4. Were the people for whom the constitution was written able to speak English or not???
  5. Were those people English themselves having run away from England personally or their parents??
  6. Does it say in the constitution that God ordered the extirpation of the English and came down and helped conduct the war crimes but failed because the English donned red coats???

A better analogy is if James Madison wrote the Constitution in the Susquehannock dialect of the Iroquoian language using the Mayan hieroglyphs... and claimed it was all handed to him on parchment written by Unkulunkulu.

And my analogy is not perfect because the American Revolution is a real historical fact and James Madison really existed... while the Exodus is a myth and Moses is as real as Batman.

.
 
Last edited:
Everything in the bible is a lie. How do I know? Because the bible tells me so.


Ah... interesting!!! I did not know that the bible says it is a lie... can you please give verse citations???
 
Last edited:
Already addressed. In the OP.


Really???

Show me where in the OP does it have verse citations of Bible verses that say the Bible is a lie???

I think you might have not read the OP carefully or properly...

I suggest you read it carefully... it is not saying what you think it is saying....

You are doing exactly the same kind of mistake as has been described here.... not reading the stuff properly.
 
Last edited:
Really???

Show me where in the OP does it have verse citations of verses that say the Bible is a lie???

I think you might have not read the OP carefully or properly...

I suggest you read it carefully... it is not saying what you think it is saying....

You are doing exactly the same kind of mistake as has been described here.... not reading the stuff properly.

My bad. You don't start citing chapter and verse until later. But the basic principle remains: You already have biblical citations that prove (to you) that the bible is a lie.
 
Really???

Show me where in the OP does it have verse citations of Bible verses that say the Bible is a lie???

I think you might have not read the OP carefully or properly...

I suggest you read it carefully... it is not saying what you think it is saying....

You are doing exactly the same kind of mistake as has been described here.... not reading the stuff properly.


r/SelfAwareWolves
 
My bad. You don't start citing chapter and verse until later. But the basic principle remains: You already have biblical citations that prove (to you) that the bible is a lie.


Thanks for admitting it :thumbsup:... however... you are still making the same mistake... that being not reading the stuff properly.... I suggest you read them again and carefully and see how nowhere do they say that the Bible is a lie.

Hint 1: I think the error stems from not knowing that PROVING something is a lie, is not the same as that something itself SAYING it is a lie.

Hint 2: When the police have EVIDENCE from the actions and utterances of a criminal that PROVE he did the crime... it is not the same thing as when the criminal SAYS he did the crime.
 
Last edited:
Honestly if this business of using the enemy's language were a real problem for the authors of the Bible, they would have included a Just So Story that justified it. Probably something about how they were commanded by God to eradicate the sinners that were befouling His holy language, and that once those evil tribes were removed from the face of earth, the Chosen People were blessed with the use of that holy language to sing God's praises forevermore.

But no such passages exist. Because it's not actually a problem for anyone.


Defense Lawyer: Your honor... ladies and gentlemen of the jury... the DNA evidence my client left in and on his victim does not incriminate him in any way... because why would he have left it there if he knew it is going to incriminate him... no ... no... no one should care about this DNA evidence.... I certainly do not... and neither should you.... and...cut! That's a wrap.
 
Last edited:
Defense Lawyer: Your honor... ladies and gentlemen of the jury... the DNA evidence my client left in and on his victim does not incriminate him in any way... because why would he have left it there if he knew it is going to incriminate him... no ... no... no one should care about this DNA evidence.... I certainly do not... and neither should you.... and...cut! That's a wrap.

DNA evidence is strong. Inarguable at times. Your arguments (not your basic premise, mind) are nonsensical. Continuing your DNA example, it would be as if the prosecution produced a chicken casserole which they claim proves the defendants guilt.

Serious question, Leumas: this is a skeptics forum chock full of atheists who fully agree with your premise. Yet all rebuke your arguments. I'm talking all. What do you make of that? Are we all drooling idiots, with you as the lone beacon of rationality? Have you...I dunno...ever stopped to consider that your arguments are not as strong as you...and only you...think they are?
 
Defense Lawyer: Your honor... ladies and gentlemen of the jury... the DNA evidence my client left in and on his victim does not incriminate him in any way... because why would he have left it there if he knew it is going to incriminate him... no ... no... no one should care about this DNA evidence.... I certainly do not... and neither should you.... and...cut! That's a wrap.
Appeals to analogy don't work on me.

The fact is that none of the authors of the Bible as we know it today had any problems with the origins of the language of the original texts. Therefore neither did the God they described have any such problems. Therefore it wasn't a problem for them, nor would it be a problem for their adherents today.

You can tell them it should be a problem, but I guess they won't care. Or if they do care, they'll already have an answer ready.

Have you tried this argument on any serious Christians? Any real biblical scholars? What did your friendly neighborhood Jesuit say, when you ran this train of thought past him?
 
Reading this topic is like going through every exceptionally bad apologist argument ever. You have the insistence that the opponent believes things they demonstrably do not, the constant non-sequiturs, the "got ya" moments that are factually wrong, the tortured analogies that don't imply what the speaker keeps insisting they imply, and even the grandiose self-aggrandizement to prophet status. They only real difference is that the speaker is apparently taking the atheist position for once, which is at least novel, if confusing.

Leumas, what exactly do you think you're accomplishing by arguing like mirror universe Ken Ham?
 
This might not be among the top few worst arguments I've ever seen, but it is one of the oddest... meaning not only do I not agree that it's valid, but I also can't imagine how anybody would think it was. With a lot of other bad arguments, I can at least see how/why they succeed in tricking some people.

In this case, the basic structure seems to be X→Y→Z, or "X is true, which implies that Y is true, which implies that Z is true". X is that the Old Testament was written in the language & alphabet of enemies of its target audience, and Z is that the mythology in the Old Testament is false, but Y is missing; we're given no way to get from the thing about languages & alphabets to the thing about the reality or unreality of anything supernatural or even the historical accuracy of a historical document's historical claims.

By itself, the missing middle step is a fairly ordinary kind of argument failure, AKA the "Underpants Gnomes Fallacy". But this case has another twist: not only is the first step (X) itself already false, but the OP makes it perfectly clear that he already knows that, because his only attempt at a defense of the claim is actually a debunking of it. Without going digging for the original exact quotes, it went like this:
►Leumas: It was written in Canaanite, the language of their enemy
►Somebody else: It was written in Hebrew
►Leumas: Hebrew is a Canaanite language/dialect

...Well, yes, that's true; Hebrew is in the Canaanite language family. (There is no individual language called "Canaanite" within that group; it's just the group name.) But that means "Canaanite" isn't the foreign language of the Hebrews' foreign enemy; it's a family including their own language. The only possible basis for a claim that an old Hebrew book was written in "Canaanite" is the fact that it was written in Hebrew and Hebrew is a Canaanite language, which inherently debunks the claim that the fact that it was written in "Canaanite" means it was written in some non-Hebrew language. It's like looking at a book in Danish, describing it as being written in a Germanic language because Danish is a Germanic language, and then trying to use the fact that the book was written in a Germanic language to somehow mean that it wasn't written in Danish, when the fact that it was written in Danish was the only basis for saying it was written in a Germanic language in the first place. :boggled:

So, in our X→Y→Z argument here, we not only don't have Y, but we don't even have X either.

But that wasn't all; Leumas's realization that Hebrew is a Canaanite language also means that (s)he knew that a pseudoanalogy (s)he used along the way was wildly false too: the thing about America's founding documents not being written in any of the native languages of North America... where the native languages were unrelated to English. What in the world could that possibly have to do with a separate invasion story in a different time & place in which the invaders' language was in the same language family as those of the invadees‽... which we already know Leumas knew because (s)he used that as the only basis on which to say that the invaders' books were written in a member of the invadees' language family!

But wait, there's more! None of the above even mentioned the strange obsession with the alphabet being the "Aramaic alphabet"... which is the Hebrew alphabet in a only slightly different font. The main thing it's notable for compared to other historical alphabets is how little it has changed, really no change at all for most letters. We modern people looking back just call it two different names in two different contexts, but that isn't how people in that area looked at it back then. It was just the alphabet... just like our alphabet is, to us, just the alphabet; they wouldn't think of the Aramaeans while using it any more than we think of the Romans while writing English. And what's with the obsession over the fact that it's an abjad, and where are "flowed/flawed" and "incomplete" coming from? I guess that all must be about alphabets without dedicated letters for vowels being somehow inferior, but the languages that have been using such alphabets for thousands of years are a demonstration that it works fine for those languages. (They even have ways to mark vowels with diacritics these days, but people normally don't find that even worth bothering with.) And the bizarre praise for the Greek alphabet as the better one for Hebrew-speakers to use was especially absurd. That alphabet started out as functionally the same alphabet as the Aramaic one (different-looking but really just versions of the same 22 letters for the same 22 sounds), but needed so much modification for Greek that it wouldn't be suitable for a Canaanite language again without a similar amount of modifications back in the opposite direction!

I've seen some weird linguistic nonsense before, but this is like somebody set out to try to see how bad (s)he could get with surreally weird linguistic nonsense on purpose. This stuff is to linguistics what that Star Trek TNG episode with characters turning into ancestral animal forms was to evolution.
 
Last edited:

Back
Top Bottom