The Bible is a Human Artifice!!!

[Leumas]

But as an ordained priest....

So as an ordained priest... did the seminary school you went to not teach that the Bible is the word of YHWH, and that Moses wrote the Pentateuch and that the Exodus did happen???

As an ordained priest... do you not know

... anyone actually proposed that the Bible was not a collection of works writren by men?....

Did this seminary school teach that Jesus was lying when he said these words...

• Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
• Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
• John 10:34-35 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

UCTAA Ordained Priest in good standing, my child.

uhuh... tell me about it!!!

As you wish. Merriam-Webster's first definition: "clever or artful skill; ingenuity"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/artifice

Here are the others...

1b: an ingenious device or expedient2a: an artful stratagem : TRICK2b: false or insincere behaviorsocial artifice​

I did not.

Yes you did...

The Bible itself claims it is written by the finger of YHWH on tablets and handed over to Moses... and fundamentalist Jews believe it and aver and avow it... and so do most of the 2.5 Billion Christians... and Jesus says so in the New Tall tales.

Ummm...no it doesn't....

 

[psionl0]

Did this seminary school teach that Jesus was lying when he said these words...

• Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
• Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
• John 10:34-35 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

I don't see the word "stone" anywhere in that list. In fact, it appears to be exactly what others believe: it is claimed that Jesus spoke those words and other wrote them down years (sometimes even decades) later.

Your claim that the entire bible was "written by the finger of YHWH on tablets" is unsupported.

 

[sarge]

The topic of this thread is that the Bible is written by humans. Stay strictly to that topic, please

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: sarge

 

[Steve]

"The words in the bible prove the bible is true" is not exactly a unique claim.

Seems a rather pointless thread.

 

[sackett]

United Church of the Artful Atheists?

Hey, I'm here to learn.

 

[Crossbow]

Another proof of the bible being an artifice of human making is the fact that it was written in the language of the Canaanites, a people the deity of the bible execrated and tried to extirpate but failed because they had iron chariots.

And it was scripted using the flowed and incomplete Abjad of the Arameans, yet another peoples the deity of the bible execrated.

And it was allegedly given to an Egyptian courtier descended from Sumerians to give to runaway slaves descended from 70 Sumerian men with their mothers and sister after having been slaves in Egypt for 430 years.

QED!!!

I quite agree.

The Bible, Quran, the Greek Myths, Moby Dick, Pride and Prejudice, The Godfather, Superman comic books, The Cat in the Hat, The Art of the Deal, and every other book that has ever been written here on planet Earth is a book that was written by a human (or humans), and is therefore every single book in all of human history has been the product of human artifice.

However, this fact is quite obvious and quite trivial.

So if you have a point to make about this fact, then please make it.

 

[Thermal]

United Church of the Artful Atheists?

Hey, I'm here to learn.

Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic.

Our motto: We Don't Know and We Don't Care.

 

[Apathia]

I've read the Bible.
Clearly, it was written by men (an onerous subset of humanity).
It's a cultural artifact of a toxic culture.

 

[Apathia]

Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic.

Our motto: We Don't Know and We Don't Care.

My mother's religion entirely.

 

[Thermal]

So as an ordained priest... did the seminary school you went to not teach that...

See that hilited bit up there? You made that up. I never claimed I went to seminary school, nor is attending such even a requirement for ordination.

That's the problem we have in your postings. You just make **** up and expect others to play along. If you stopped that, we could have a more productive exchange.

Did this seminary school teach that Jesus was lying when he said these words...

• Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
• Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
• John 10:34-35 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

This is another repeated error you make. The Biblical works are not told in the first person. They are pretty much all recounted as passed-down stories. Claiming to quote or paraphrase is meaningless if you don't even know how far the telephone game has been played.

Do you get this, at any level? Someone passing down a story claiming to quote god is not remotely equivalent to claiming the Bible is the work of anyone other than the men who stopped to write it down. Period.

 

[Steve]

See that hilited bit up there? You made that up. I never claimed I went to seminary school, nor is attending such even a requirement for ordination.

That's the problem we have in your postings. You just make **** up and expect others to play along. If you stopped that, we could have a more productive exchange.



This is another repeated error you make. The Biblical works are not told in the first person. They are pretty much all recounted as passed-down stories. Claiming to quote or paraphrase is meaningless if you don't even know how far the telephone game has been played.

Do you get this, at any level? Someone passing down a story claiming to quote god is not remotely equivalent to claiming the Bible is the work of anyone other than the men who stopped to write it down. Period.

Not to mention that passages in a book written in 17th century English are highly unlikely to resemble anything said by a god, or anyone else, in BCE Palestine.

 

[Thermal]

Not to mention that passages in a book written in 17th century English are highly unlikely to resemble anything said by a god, or anyone else, in BCE Palestine.

That's why I don't get why people get so hung up on literalism. The oldest copies we have are from what, the 4th century? We are pretty much guessing at what languages they were likely written in originally, and what languages they were passed around in, and of course we have lost a lot of the precise nuances of long-dead language use and what was meant.

I remember asking my grandfather why a lot of the words in the King James were italicized. Didn't seem like they needed particular emphasis. He told me that those words were dicey in their interpretation, and the translators were guessing, and wanted it to be clear. There were an awful lot of italicized words.

 

[theprestige]

I suggest you read Exodus 20 to 34 carefully and try to fathom it.

Nevertheless... the fact that the Buybull claims that YHWH wrote anything at all in the language of the people he personally tried to genocide and ethnically cleanse off of the face of earth and using a flawed and incomplete abjad of yet another people he loathed... is proof that the Buybull is nothing but perfidy even before one takes into account anything else it says... QED!!!

How do you know the stone inscriptions were written in that language? Or even in that alphabet?

 

[sackett]

Given the old-time Jews' respect for the written word (shall I call it superstitious reverence amounting to fetishism?), it's not surprising that their holy texts are collections of scraps, repetitions, and uncollated variants. Hell, you can hardly find any ancient text that's not compounded of various scribblers' efforts.

What's it all mean, Mr. Natural? Don't mean ****.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited for rule 10. Please do not disguise swear words.

 

[Leumas]

I don't see the word "stone" anywhere in that list. In fact, it appears to be exactly what others believe: it is claimed that Jesus spoke those words and other wrote them down years (sometimes even decades) later.

Your claim that the entire bible was "written by the finger of YHWH on tablets" is unsupported.

Really??... seriously??... well I guess the above post is a vivid demonstration of the modus operandi of the apologetics artifice... thanks very much for that.

I don't see the word "stone" anywhere in that list.... bible was "written by the finger of YHWH on tablets" is unsupported.

well... yes of course if you refuse to actually read the bible... but if you did read it you might have noticed the REST OF the list which I posted again here and which was quoted in full by others here and again here and here.

I suggest you read them and see if you can

...see the word "stone" anywhere in that list...

Your claim that the entire bible was "written by the finger of YHWH on tablets" is unsupported.

The above is yet another exposition of the apologetics artifice... thanks again!!!

 

[zooterkin]

Really??... seriously??... well I guess the above post is a vivid demonstration of the modus operandi of the apologetics artifice... thanks very much for that.





well... yes of course if you refuse to actually read the bible... but if you did read it you might have noticed the REST OF the list which I posted again here and which was quoted in full by others here and again here and here.

I suggest you read them and see if you can






The above is yet another exposition of the apologetics artifice... thanks again!!!

Why do you want people here to read the bible? Why not the Koran, or Buddhist scriptures, given that most people here don’t believe any of them?

 

[sackett]

Leumas, I'd read the Bible if I could, but I swear before Jesus christ & all his bewhiskered deciples that I can't. As in physically. The boredom causes my hands to lose their grip on the book, the tedium drags my eyelids down, the vacuity forces my brain to seek other thoughts.

Mind you, I have never supposed that there is such a thing as useless knowledge. But the labor of gleaning ANYTHING from such a ramshack as the Bible is not worth it, not to me and not to most people here -- who are, I think, by and large tougher readers than I am.

 

[Leumas]

How do you know the stone inscriptions were written in that language? Or even in that alphabet?

A Very good point... especially given that the oldest extant anything to do with the bible is the Septuagint which is written in Greek using the much better and full alphabet of the Euclidean Greek alphabet

The Greek alphabet has been used to write the Greek language since the late 9th or early 8th century BCE. It is derived from the earlier Phoenician alphabet,[5] and was the earliest known alphabetic script to have distinct letters for vowels as well as consonants. In Archaic and early Classical times, the Greek alphabet existed in many local variants, but, by the end of the 4th century BCE, the Euclidean alphabet, with 24 letters, ordered from alpha to omega, had become standard and it is this version that is still used for Greek writing today

Of course many older little shards and minute fragments here and there have been found that are PURPORTED to be from the bible... but most of those are in the Phoenician abjad the ones that have the Aramaic abjad have an early form of that too.

The Phoenician alphabet is an alphabet (more specifically, an abjad) known in modern times from the Canaanite and Aramaic inscriptions found across the Mediterranean region. The name comes from the Phoenician civilization.

However... when you ask

How do you know...

It is of course a very fallacious question... since I was born in the 20th century CE and I do not know what happened in the PURPORTED time that is ALLEGED in the BUYBULL around 1400 BCE... since I was not there.

Nevertheless... many fundamentalist (and even not so fundamentalist) Jews believe (and christians believe them too also see Mark 7:13 and ohn 10:34-35 and Matthew 22:31) that the ancestors were there and the information has been passed down father to son WITHOUT INTERRUPTION and thus Rabbis today attest to the fact that it is all true as witnessed by over 2.5 Million ancestors.... who despite all that went ahead and melted their stolen jewelry and made a cow statue and started worshiping it in preference to this Canaanite Speaking Aramaic writing YHWH.... not to mention the interminable frequent reverting to preferring the worship of the Queen of Heaven (Asherah) despite the equally incessant and frequent clobbering YHWH kept abusing his wife with.

Pirkei Avot begins with a statement of the chain of transmission of the Torah from the original revelation at Sinai through the early rabbis: “Moses received Torah from God at Sinai. He transmitted it to Joshua, Joshua to the elders, the elders to the prophets, the prophets to the members of the Great Assembly (1:1).” From here, the first two chapters of Pirkei Avot trace the uninterrupted transmission of the Torah from the first rabbis, who formed the Great Assembly, to the disciples of these original rabbis and through the generations of rabbis who followed. By placing themselves in a line of transmission that begins with Sinai, the rabbis of the Mishnah define themselves as the possessors of the authentic tradition. As such, these two chapters establish the authority of the entire Mishnah: If the rabbis of the Mishnah received the Torah directly from God, through an uninterrupted line of transmission, then these rabbis have the authority to interpret this tradition and to issue binding legal rulings.

In any case the Septuagint is said to be a translation from Canaanite (a.k.a. Hebrew)

The Greek Old Testament, or Septuagint... is the earliest extant Greek translation of books from the Hebrew Bible.... It is the oldest and most important complete translation of the Hebrew Bible made by the Jews. Some targums translating or paraphrasing the Bible into Aramaic were also made around the same time...The first five books of the Hebrew Bible, known as the Torah or the Pentateuch, were translated in the mid-3rd century BCE. The full title (Ancient Greek: Ἡ μετάφρασις τῶν Ἑβδομήκοντα, lit. 'The Translation of the Seventy') derives from the story recorded in the Letter of Aristeas that the Hebrew Torah was translated into Greek at the request of Ptolemy II Philadelphus (285–247 BCE) by 70 Jewish scholars or, according to later tradition, ... Greek translations of Hebrew scriptures were in circulation among the Alexandrian Jews. Egyptian papyri from the period have led most scholars to view as probable Aristeas's dating of the translation of the Pentateuch to the third century BCE. ... it satisfied a need felt by the Jewish community, in whom the knowledge of Hebrew was waning... Greek scriptures were in wide use during the Second Temple period, because few people could read Hebrew at that time. The text of the Greek Old Testament is quoted more often than the original Hebrew Bible text in the Greek New Testament (particularly the Pauline epistles) by the Apostolic Fathers, and later by the Greek Church Fathers.....

​

 

[Leumas]

Leumas, I'd read the Bible if I could, but I swear before Jesus christ & all his bewhiskered deciples that I can't. As in physically. The boredom causes my hands to lose their grip on the book, the tedium drags my eyelids down, the vacuity forces my brain to seek other thoughts.

Mind you, I have never supposed that there is such a thing as useless knowledge. But the labor of gleaning ANYTHING from such a ramshack as the Bible is not worth it, not to me and not to most people here -- who are, I think, by and large tougher readers than I am.

Yup.... but... you do not need to read it.... since the fact that it is written in Canaanite using the flawed and incomplete Abjad of the Aramaic and uses names of the Gods of the Arameans and Canaanites and Sumerians and Babylonians to name the months of the year... is all one needs to know that it is nothing but an artifice devised by wily charlatans and grifters in benighted miserable eras... and not anything other than fairy tales and perfidy purporting to be divine.

You know ... just like I said in the OP....

Another proof of the bible being an artifice of human making is the fact that it was written in the language of the Canaanites...

And I did not ask you or anyone who agrees to read anything... just like I said....

Nevertheless... the fact that the Buybull claims that YHWH wrote anything at all in the language of the people he personally tried to genocide and ethnically cleanse off of the face of earth and using a flawed and incomplete abjad of yet another people he loathed... is proof that the Buybull is nothing but perfidy even before one takes into account anything else it says...

I only ask people who deny these facts to read the buybull for the proofs that they evidently are denying out of ignorance of the content which prove my facts... or the ones who deny that the content is there at all.... even when I quote it right here so that they do not have to even read it in the buybull... they still deny it.

For example...

No, it most certainly does not claim this.

Ummm...no it doesn't...

I don't see the word "stone" anywhere in that list. .... Your claim that the entire bible was "written by the finger of YHWH on tablets" is unsupported.

.

 

[Leumas]

Why do you want people here to read the bible? Why not the Koran, or Buddhist scriptures, given that most people here don’t believe any of them?

I do not want people here to do anything... I made a post... they posted denying its validity... I suggested they read the PROOF for the validity... you know... so that they can verify for themselves from the primary source that their denial is incorrect.