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Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

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Bob001 said:
A reporter today is saying that Uvalde school system had its own small police department unconnected to local police, and there is some question about who was receiving the 911 calls and whether they were routed properly.
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And most school security "police" are not much better then Mall cops, frankly.
 
Hey, whoever sold the school the door to that classroom has a market in people who might be confronted with a no-knock warrant! "No cop will ever get into your house or apartment if you have one of these babies, we guarantee it!*"

* Guarantee void if Border Patrol breaks through.
 
Jesus Christ let's actually have a "civil debate" about whether an entire city's police force should be expected to stop a single shooter from murdering children.
 
alfaniner said:
It's amazing that the simple act of propping open a door can have such disastrous consequences. If that teacher wasn't one of the ones killed, they are going to have a tough life for doing something so innocuous.

I dread the inevitable release of the 911 calls audio from some of the kids.
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Oh, dear. Now you've asked for it. Expect to be accused of 'blaming the teachers' and compared to Ted Cruz (the POS).
 
shemp said:
I guess we'll just issue pardons for everyone convicted at Nuremberg.
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Generally, lots of Nazis said they were just following orders.

The ones who convinced the judges that they were, indeed, following orders, were acquitted.

If they were hanged, it's either because they gave the orders, or because they went beyond their orders. (i.e. not every concentration camp guard was convicted of war crimes, much less executed for them. The ones who made no effort toward humanity were convicted. The ones who hanged were the most cruel and sadistic.)


The point is that these officers on the scene had to make decisions, but they were guilty of accepting someone else's judgement about the best thing to do, and that "someone else" was in fact the guy in charge. I think that guy in charge is not going to be in charge anymore, because he did the wrong thing. I don't know how far downhill blame is going to flow in this case. I have a feeling not very far.
 
shemp said:
Hey, whoever sold the school the door to that classroom has a market in people who might be confronted with a no-knock warrant! "No cop will ever get into your house or apartment if you have one of these babies, we guarantee it!*"
.....
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Until the janitor shows up with a key (which is reportedly what happened).
 
lobosrul5 said:
Or the shooter would have found another way in. Its an elementary school not a maximum security military facility.
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Possibly. But during the time he spent looking, he would have been exposed to police fire and the school given more time to lock down.
 
Booze? Fags? Jazz mags? Lottery tickets?
Get out of the shop kid.
Shooters?
Here you go lad.
 
Stacyhs said:
I agree. The "I would have" claims never surprise me as most of them are said from the comfort and safety of their armchairs or computer desks. Some people actually 'would have' but I don't doubt that most of them would not react as they like to think they would. Armchair heroes are a dime a dozen.
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True, but the point is if you don want to ever risk your life, then don't sign on to be a cop...or a firefighter for that matter. That you might have to risk your life in perfromance of your duties is what you signed on for.
I agree with waiting for the facts to emerge, but the fact have emerged and there is no way round this was a *************** of major proportions.
I owuld not blame people in Valverde for buying a gun at this point, since they can't rely on their police to protect them....and people will take whatever steps they think necessary to protect themselves. It's called "Survival Instict" and it's hard wired into every human being.
In fact, a great deal of training in any high risk job is to overcome that and perfrom your duties.
 
dudalb said:
And most school security "police" are not much better then Mall cops, frankly.
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Except most school systems use what they call "resource officers," actual members of the local police dept. Sometimes they are older guys approaching retirement, sometimes they are young guys who are thought to relate well to kids, but they are actual police officers with the full resources of the local dept. behind them. Uvalde sounds like an exception.
 
Bob001 said:
That all seems like a distraction. This wasn't a routine trespasser. Can there be any doubt that the guy would have shot his way through the front door, or entered any other way he could have? For that matter, if he had knocked at the locked door, isn't it more likely than not that somebody would have opened it to ask why? Or he could have opened fire through the windows from outside. This is just not something to focus on.
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This started out as my making a simple statement of fact in response to Alfaniner's posted quote from the PD that the shooter gained entrance through the back door:

Stacyhs said:
That back door should have been locked. Entrances to schools should always have doors that can be opened from inside but not from outside.
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The responses? Immediate nasty reactions comparing me to Cruz, accusing me of blaming the teachers, and victim blaming. No matter that Cruz called for a single point of entrance which I did not say and disagree with. No matter that I quoted and cited the Fire Association's clear recommendation for outside doors to remain closed and locked and only openable from the inside per school safety. Nope, I get the following idiotic responses:

angrysoba said:
Sure thing, Ted Cruz!
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angrysoba said:
These will all be used as reasons why guns don’t have to be looked into.

The GOP will blame the cops and teachers, fire some scapegoats and darkly make ethnic insinuations then wait until the next round which will probably not be long.
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EaglePuncher said:
Stacyhs (and Cruz): It was the door's fault!!!!!
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The Don said:
As Sherlock Holmes says, "When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".

It's impossible that there can be any blame assigned to US gun culture and the ease with which an 18 year old managed to get hold of such weaponry. The police cannot possibly be blamed for not stopping the killer in the minutes between the car crash (and subsequent gunfire) and entering the school or for the hour where they sat on their thumbs waiting for the assault team to arrive.

Therefore other scapegoats must be found ant ISTM that teachers are ideal candidates. They have the ideal combination of being educated (and hence being suspect) and having low social standing (and hence easy to criticise). If they hadn't left the door unlocked, then they would have been blamed for their cowardice in not engaging the shooter directly.:rolleyes:
I think the answer is to do away with all of these milquetoast intellectuals who caused the whole thing by unlocking that door and then so spectacularly failed to protect the children by not taking out the shooter and replace them with heavily-armed veterans. Sure, the kids may not learn anything but it's more important for them to be safe than to be educated. ;)
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erlando said:
"She shouldn't have been wearing that"
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No, it's not a distraction at all. It's quite possible that the shooter could have found another way in, but that IS how he got in. Once he gained entrance he was able to barricade himself inside the safety of the classroom where he killed those children and teachers. As I stated in another post, during the time he may have spent trying to find another access point, he would have been exposed to police gunfire.

It MUST be reinforced to schools to ALWAYS have those door closed and locked no matter how inconvenient they are at times.
 
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