Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

[dudalb]

And, of course, an investigation by the very police who stood by with hands in pockets is certain to reveal the facts.

Uh, Texas DPS i different then the police who were on the scene.

 

[dudalb]

Why didn't any of the teachers at that school have a gun? Not even one of them was armed. Why didn't the school have a security officer on duty? This is a large elementary school with over 700 students. You'd think that would have qualified for having a security guard on the school grounds.

Why doesn't Texas have a red flag law? Florida, a solidly Republican state, has a strong red flag law, passed by the GOP-controlled legislature and signed the by the GOP governor. So why doesn't Texas have one?

When I went to school in Israel, anytime we went on a field trip, one of the **teachers** brought a rifle. Every school had a security guard who controlled access to the school.

Of course in Israel with almost universal military service the teacher actually knew how to use a Galil rifle. That is not the case in the US only a small percentage of the population has seen military service.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Uh, Texas DPS i different then the police who were on the scene.

A different entity in the same government plagued with systemic corruption will conduct the investigation, so there's that.

 

[angrysoba]

The latest info:


That back door should have been locked. Entrances to schools should always have doors that can be opened from inside but not from outside.

Sure thing, Ted Cruz!

 

[dudalb]

A different entity in the same government plagued with systemic corruption will conduct the investigation, so there's that.

I just think cops being cowards will be too much even for a lot of Texans, frankly.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Clearly, Texans Cops need to be equipped with Javelin missiles, so they can kill perps from a safe distance.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Your analysis of the situation sounds remarkably...predictable.

I am going to suggest that cops should not be allowing people to run into the school during or immediately after a mass shooting. Just a thought.

Are you going to be embarrassed at all when it turns out the cops sat on their asses for an hour waiting for backup then lied about it afterward? There it is on video, all the lies and excuses you seem to be in denial about.

I don't know the story yet about what the mom who got her kids out did once inside. It's too bad she couldn't get a bunch more of those other kids out.

 

[Warp12]

Are you going to be embarrassed at all when it turns out the cops sat on their asses for an hour waiting for backup then lied about it afterward? There it is on video, all the lies and excuses you seem to be in denial about.

I am going to stand by my assertion that cops should not be allowing civilians to enter the site of a mass shooting during or immediately after the event.

I'm sure if she ran in and got shot, that would trigger its own outrage.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Yeah, OK...you've made your personal dislike of police very clear.


I'm finding it rather pathetic that some here cannot seem to differentiate between saying that we should wait until the investigation is over to determine if the police were wrong and somehow 'excusing' the police. Isn't that what investigations are for? To determine the facts?

I actually did wait, and I said so at first that I would wait until more came out.

But the video showed 40 minutes of inaction, it was not consistent with the story the police were telling. The shooting went on during that 40 minutes. And one parent was able to get in and get her 2 kids out during that time.

I'm willing to change my POV should more information come out. Right now I'm in the 'that's ****** up' corner.

 

[dann]

Why didn't any of the teachers at that school have a gun? Not even one of them was armed. Why didn't the school have a security officer on duty? This is a large elementary school with over 700 students. You'd think that would have qualified for having a security guard on the school grounds.

Why doesn't Texas have a red flag law? Florida, a solidly Republican state, has a strong red flag law, passed by the GOP-controlled legislature and signed the by the GOP governor. So why doesn't Texas have one?

When I went to school in Israel, anytime we went on a field trip, one of the **teachers** brought a rifle. Every school had a security guard who controlled access to the school.

When I went to school in Denmark, anytime we went on a field trip, nobody brought a rifle or any other kind of firearm. No school had a security guard. It wasn't necessary because the crazies weren't armed. Denmark has had one mass shooting at a university. In 1994. Three were killed, one of them the shooter (by suicide). No shootings at ordinary schools or high schools: Aarhus University shooting, School shooting: Europe (Wikipedia)
Don't arm the crazies!

 

[Bob001]

I am going to stand by my assertion that cops should not be allowing civilians to enter the site of a mass shooting during or immediately after the event.

I'm sure if she ran in and got shot, that would trigger its own outrage.

Excellent point. The best way for the cops to discourage civilians from trying to enter the site would have been for the heavily armed, bulletproof-vest clad cops to do it themselves.

 

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The latest info:


That back door should have been locked. Entrances to schools should always have doors that can be opened from inside but not from outside.

Sure thing, Ted Cruz!

Your snippy answer is wrong on two points:

1) Ted Cruz suggested a SINGLE DOOR entry/exit in schools. I said the BACK DOOR should have been locked. A single door is a stupid and dangerous idea.

2) It was standard school safety protocol in the schools I taught in for outside entrances to only be openable from the inside to help prevent exactly what happened in Uvalde: an unauthorized person entering through an unlocked
secondary door.

Current requirements and guidelines around door locking and fire alarm systems from the National Fire Protection Association® (NFPA®) help ensure the safety of students, teachers, and staff in the event of targeted violence threats. While many of these features are easy to address in new school construction, school administrators and fire officials have asked questions about implementing some of them in existing schools, as they can present challenges. The following questions and answers explain NFPA’s current provisions and how they can be safely applied

Can exterior exit doors be locked to prevent
unauthorized people from entering a school?

NFPA 101 permits exterior exit doors (those that lead directly to the outside) to be locked from the outside to control who can enter the building. From the inside, those same doors need to allow people to leave during emergencies. All occupants must be able to exit the building without needing a key, tool,or special knowledge or effort to open the door.
https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/Code-or-topic-fact-sheets/SchoolSafetyUpdate.ashx

 

[arthwollipot]

A single door could result in a lot of dead kids in the case of a fire.

 

[angrysoba]

I just think cops being cowards will be too much even for a lot of Texans, frankly.

Your snippy answer is wrong on two points:

1) Ted Cruz suggested a SINGLE DOOR entry/exit in schools. I said the BACK DOOR should have been locked. A single door is a stupid and dangerous idea.

2) It was standard school safety protocol in the schools I taught in for outside entrances to only be openable from the inside to help prevent exactly what happened in Uvalde: an unauthorized person entering through an unlocked
secondary door.

These will all be used as reasons why guns don’t have to be looked into.

The GOP will blame the cops and teachers, fire some scapegoats and darkly make ethnic insinuations then wait until the next round which will probably not be long.

 

[The Don]

Getting the story straight.

Sorry but I see reasons straight from the cops themselves to doubt their competency and honesty. I guess I'm cynical:

Media changes a story = probably correct.
Cops change story to one that removes culpability = I am suspicious.

Cops routinely go through great pains to cover their asses, as do their superiors, the unions and DAs. We know this for a fact.

ETA:
The problem though is not the police, it is our sick society and its lust for violence and guns.

Can't it be both ?

The lust for violence and guns has bled through and means that the police have a fundamentally different relationship with the public than in any other developed nation.

ISTM that the police in the US behave like another "gang".

 

[Stacyhs]

I actually did wait, and I said so at first that I would wait until more came out.

But the video showed 40 minutes of inaction, it was not consistent with the story the police were telling. The shooting went on during that 40 minutes. And one parent was able to get in and get her 2 kids out during that time.

I'm willing to change my POV should more information come out. Right now I'm in the 'that's ****** up' corner.

And I'll be right there condemning the police if the investigation show that's what happened. But a lot of people in this thread were crapping all over the police almost immediately without knowing the facts.

 

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Your snippy answer is wrong on two points:

1) Ted Cruz suggested a SINGLE DOOR entry/exit in schools. I said the BACK DOOR should have been locked. A single door is a stupid and dangerous idea.

2) It was standard school safety protocol in the schools I taught in for outside entrances to only be openable from the inside to help prevent exactly what happened in Uvalde: an unauthorized person entering through an unlocked
secondary door.

These will all be used as reasons why guns don’t have to be looked into.

The GOP will blame the cops and teachers, fire some scapegoats and darkly make ethnic insinuations then wait until the next round which will probably not be long.

Rather than acknowledge that your extremely insulting "Ted Cruz" remark to me was unwarranted, you skim right over it. Then you ignore the point that locked secondary entry doors are a recommended, rational, and obvious safety procedure and that by leaving it unlocked, the shooter gained entry to the school.

By the way, the Uvalde SD already required that door to be locked:

According to Uvalde County Independent School District Officers protocol, campuses are required to have staff "who patrol door entrances, parking lots and perimeters". Teachers are told to keep doors locked at all times.
"We will find out as much as we can why it was unlocked," Mr Escalon said. "Or maybe it was locked. But right now, it appears it was unlocked."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61600914

And safety leaders said locking exterior doors is a best practice, but it’s one strategy that needs to be strictly enforced.
“Sometimes convenience can take priority over safety and you can have a plan in place, you can have policies in place,” said Kathy Martinez Prather, director of the Texas School Safety Center at Texas State University. “They’re only as effective as they’re being implemented.”

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/26/texas-uvalde-shooting-harden-schools/

 

[EaglePuncher]

Rather than acknowledge that your extremely insulting "Ted Cruz" remark to me was unwarranted, you skim right over it. Then you ignore the point that locked secondary entry doors are a recommended, rational, and obvious safety procedure and that by leaving it unlocked, the shooter gained entry to the school.

By the way, the Uvalde SD already required that door to be locked:


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61600914


https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/26/texas-uvalde-shooting-harden-schools/

Stacyhs (and Cruz): It was the door's fault!!!!!

 

[Darat]

These will all be used as reasons why guns don’t have to be looked into.

The GOP will blame the cops and teachers, fire some scapegoats and darkly make ethnic insinuations then wait until the next round which will probably not be long.

And also that it means more guns are needed.

 

[The Don]

Stacyhs (and Cruz): It was the door's fault!!!!!

As Sherlock Holmes says, "When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".

It's impossible that there can be any blame assigned to US gun culture and the ease with which an 18 year old managed to get hold of such weaponry. The police cannot possibly be blamed for not stopping the killer in the minutes between the car crash (and subsequent gunfire) and entering the school or for the hour where they sat on their thumbs waiting for the assault team to arrive.

Therefore other scapegoats must be found ant ISTM that teachers are ideal candidates. They have the ideal combination of being educated (and hence being suspect) and having low social standing (and hence easy to criticise). If they hadn't left the door unlocked, then they would have been blamed for their cowardice in not engaging the shooter directly.

I think the answer is to do away with all of these milquetoast intellectuals who caused the whole thing by unlocking that door and then so spectacularly failed to protect the children by not taking out the shooter and replace them with heavily-armed veterans. Sure, the kids may not learn anything but it's more important for them to be safe than to be educated.