Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

[lobosrul5]

So the local police has a SWAT, but for their safety, they waited for the Border SWAT?!

Something else, I'm not sure if mentioned in this thread, Uvalde has a Border Patrol office/station in city limits. Its not as if they traveled the 50 or 60 miles from the border to Uvalde. Can't be more than 5 minutes drive from the school even obeying speed limits and stopping for lights.

I'm just wondering what the chain of events was... Uvalde SWAT showed up pretty early (or at least guys with body armor, tactical gear, and short barrel AR-15's)... then what? Did Uvalde PD call on border patrol and there was a wait while they got authorization from higher ups? This situation wasn't in Border Patrols mission parameter after all.

 

[Stacyhs]

As Sherlock Holmes says, "When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".

It's impossible that there can be any blame assigned to US gun culture and the ease with which an 18 year old managed to get hold of such weaponry. The police cannot possibly be blamed for not stopping the killer in the minutes between the car crash (and subsequent gunfire) and entering the school or for the hour where they sat on their thumbs waiting for the assault team to arrive.
Therefore other scapegoats must be found ant ISTM that teachers are ideal candidates. They have the ideal combination of being educated (and hence being suspect) and having low social standing (and hence easy to criticise). If they hadn't left the door unlocked, then they would have been blamed for their cowardice in not engaging the shooter directly.

I think the answer is to do away with all of these milquetoast intellectuals who caused the whole thing by unlocking that door and then so spectacularly failed to protect the children by not taking out the shooter and replace them with heavily-armed veterans. Sure, the kids may not learn anything but it's more important for them to be safe than to be educated.

What an incredibly insulting, asinine and completely WRONG pile of crap. NO ONE, INCLUDING ME, IS "BLAMING THE TEACHERS". This was my first post in this thread:

what the HELL is wrong with this country? FOURTEEN CHILDREN AND ONE TEACHER DEAD! I'm disgusted with the gun mentality in this country and those that support it. I don't want to hear about your FREEDOMS or your 2A Right. I don't give a damn about your 'right' to swagger around with a gun on your belt so you can feel like a BIG, MACHO MAN or WOMAN or any of the excuses you all have for "needing" to own a gun. I DON'T CARE! This love affair with guns has got to stop. But it won't as long as the NRA and gun nuts fight every damn effort to control it and equate gun ownership with 'freedom' and "mah RIIIIIIIIGHTS!" It makes me want to vomit. And I'm specifically calling out the REPUBLICAN PARTY because it's YOU who keep making this kind of slaughter possible with your constant refusal to do damn thing to stop it. It makes me want to vomit. Yeah, I'm ranting because I'm madder than hell. And those of you who want to respond with your 'reasons' for not stopping this madness, I DON'T CARE!

Does THAT look like I'm blaming the teachers or the doors? I'm blaming the gun culture in this country and the GOP who consistently vote down any gun control reform. But what do you and a few others who have difficulty understanding the difference between pointing out the FACT that that door should have been closed and locked BY SCHOOL DISTRICT RULES and BLAMING the teachers do? You accuse me of blaming the teachers and comparing me with that POS Ted Cruz.

Did I ANYWHERE put any blame on the teachers in that school? I stated a fact that YOU equated with blaming the teachers. Now you go ahead and defend your POS post because you'd rather dig in than admit pointing out a fact is not the same as putting blame on the teachers.

 

[JoeMorgue]

11:27 a.m.: Video shows that an exterior door to Ross Elementary School that gunman Salvador Ramos entered was propped open by a teacher.

11:28 a.m: Ramos crashes a vehicle near the school into a ditch, gets out and begins firing upon two people who came outside to see the crash near a funeral home. Civilians are not struck by gunfire. The teacher runs to a room to get a phone, returns to the door, and the door remains open.

11:30 a.m.: The first 911 call is made to Uvalde police reporting a car crash and a man with a gun outside the school.

11:30 a.m.: The US Marshals Service says it received a call from a Uvalde police officer requesting assistance.

11:31 a.m.: The shooting suspect reaches the last row of cars in the school parking lot and shooting begins outside of the school. Patrol vehicles reach the funeral home, and a patrol car drives by shooter, who is hunkered down by another vehicle.

11:32 a.m.: The suspect fires at the school.

11:33 a.m.: The suspect enters the school and begins shooting into a classroom. He shot more than 100 rounds.

11:35 a.m.: A total of seven officers are on the scene, and three officers enter the school, later followed by an additional team of three more officers and a sheriff. Two of the initial officers received grazing wounds from the suspect while the classroom door was closed.

11:37 a.m.: Sixteen rounds were fired from 11:37 a.m. to 11:44 a.m.

11:43 a.m.: Robb Elementary announces on Facebook that "Robb Elementary is under a Lockdown Status due to gunshots in the area."

11:51 a.m.: More officers arrive.

12:03 p.m.: As many as 19 officers are in the school's hallway.

12:03 p.m.: A girl in room 112 of the school makes a 911 call.

12:10 p.m.: A 911 call is received from the same girl in room 112, reporting multiple people are dead.

12:13 p.m.: The girl makes another 911 call.

12:15 p.m.: Border Patrol's tactical unit BorTac team arrives on scene.

12:16 p.m.: The same girl makes another 911 call, reporting there were “eight to nine students alive."

12:17 p.m.: Robb Elementary announces on Facebook: "There is an active shooter at Robb Elementary. Law enforcement is on site. Your cooperation is needed at this time by not visiting the campus. As soon as more information is gathered it will be shared. The rest of the district is under a Secure Status."

12:19 p.m.: A different 911 call is received from a caller in room 111, but the caller hung up after another student told them to.

12:21 p.m.: Suspect fires again.

12:21 p.m.: Another 911 call is received, and three shots fired are heard.

12:21 p.m.: Officers move down the hallway.

12:36 p.m.: There is a 911 call that last 21 seconds, with a student saying, "he shot the door."

12:43 and 12:47 p.m.: 911 caller says "please send police now."

12:46 p.m.: 911 caller can hear police next door.

12:50 p.m.: Shots are heard being fired over the 911 call.

12:50 p.m.: Law enforcement breach door using keys from janitor and kill suspect.

12:51 p.m.: On 911 call, it sounds like officers are moving children out of the room.

 

[catsmate]

"We're one update away from hearing that the police accidently shot at least one of the kids." - A prediction I saw on Twitter.

There is a suggestion that the CBP officer was hit by friendly fire.

The truth begins to emerge:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/27/uvalde-shooting-police-gunman-shot-olivarez/

Surprisingly honest.

 

[Warp12]

Looks like a few cops had endured all they were willing to endure when they were "grazed by bullets".

I remember that time I was grazed by bullets sitting at my keyboard.

You guys act like these are battle-hardened soldiers of fortune. 99.9% of these guys time is probably spent doing routine, daily tasks. Which don't include taking gunfire. I mean it is commendable how so many claim that they would run in, guns blazing. Like, super-commendable.

 

[lobosrul5]

I remember that time I was grazed by bullets sitting at my keyboard.

You guys act like these are battle-hardened soldiers of fortune. 99.9% of these guys time is probably spent doing routine, daily tasks. Which don't include taking gunfire. I mean it is commendable how so many claim that they would run in, guns blazing. Like, super-commendable.

Who, in this thread, has stated that? I haven't seen it, but its possible I missed a post or two.

 

[plague311]

I remember that time I was grazed by bullets sitting at my keyboard.

You guys act like these are battle-hardened soldiers of fortune. 99.9% of these guys time is probably spent doing routine, daily tasks. Which don't include taking gunfire. I mean it is commendable how so many claim that they would run in, guns blazing. Like, super-commendable.

I don't give a **** what their daily routine is and I don't give a **** if they're "battle-hardened". You're nothing more than an excuse machine for the cops.

The fact is their job DOES include taking gunfire, because that's part of protecting the ******* community. It's literally in their job description. It's what they're trained for and they almost had the balls to pull it off. Then they tucked tail and ran like pussies.

I'll let you get back to your daily routine of licking cop boot like a good boy.

 

[catsmate]

Will Abbott, who has hailed the "quick response" of "valiant local officials" that "showed amazing courage by running toward gunfire," be walking back any of his praise?

In an election year?

 

[Warp12]

Who, in this thread, has stated that? I haven't seen it, but its possible I missed a post or two.

At least one person, recently. So, you are saying that the rest wouldn't go in, wouldn't disobey orders, wouldn't play the lone-wolf hero??? I'm just trying to get an idea of how courageous these people are that are proclaiming that all of these cops are "cowards" or "pussies".

 

[JoeMorgue]

At least one person, recently. So, you are saying that the rest wouldn't go in, wouldn't disobey orders, wouldn't play the lone-wolf hero??? I'm just trying to get an idea of how courageous the people are who are claiming all of these cops are "cowards".

Don't worry next time I'm sure even more children will die that you can be better than us by "not getting emotional" about.

 

[Upchurch]

I remember that time I was grazed by bullets sitting at my keyboard.

You guys act like these are battle-hardened soldiers of fortune. 99.9% of these guys time is probably spent doing routine, daily tasks. Which don't include taking gunfire. I mean it is commendable how so many claim that they would run in, guns blazing. Like, super-commendable.

I, for one, agree with Warp12 on this. It is an utter myth that a good guy with a gun will stop a bad guy with a gun. Simply throwing more guns into the situation is pointless.

 

[Stacyhs]

Some of you either can't read, are being intentionally or unintentionally obtuse or are just plain looking to be nasty.

what the HELL is wrong with this country? FOURTEEN CHILDREN AND ONE TEACHER DEAD! I'm disgusted with the gun mentality in this country and those that support it. I don't want to hear about your FREEDOMS or your 2A Right. I don't give a damn about your 'right' to swagger around with a gun on your belt so you can feel like a BIG, MACHO MAN or WOMAN or any of the excuses you all have for "needing" to own a gun. I DON'T CARE! This love affair with guns has got to stop. But it won't as long as the NRA and gun nuts fight every damn effort to control it and equate gun ownership with 'freedom' and "mah RIIIIIIIIGHTS!" It makes me want to vomit. And I'm specifically calling out the REPUBLICAN PARTY because it's YOU who keep making this kind of slaughter possible with your constant refusal to do damn thing to stop it. It makes me want to vomit. Yeah, I'm ranting because I'm madder than hell. And those of you who want to respond with your 'reasons' for not stopping this madness, I DON'T CARE!

The latest info:


That back door should have been locked. Entrances to schools should always have doors that can be opened from inside but not from outside.

Sure thing, Ted Cruz!

Stacyhs (and Cruz): It was the door's fault!!!!!

"She shouldn't have been wearing that"

Apparently, you can't handle having FACTS pointed out without resorting to this kind of childish and nasty response and equating it with 'blaming the teachers'.

1) It is a FACT that the door was propped open.
2) It is a FACT that the school district's policy was for it to be closed and locked.
3) It is a FACT that the shooter gained entrance to the school through that door.

As a former teacher, I know that propping those doors open happens. I've done it myself for various reasons. I am not blaming the teachers. But it is a FACT that the door should have been closed and locked. Or do you want to claim otherwise? Grow up.

neither did the Police, it seems, but that didn't stop them from quickly making claims to make them look good in the early reporting.
If a PD with a PR department gets to make premature claims, why don't we?
Shouldn't their standard be much higher than that demanded of members on an online forum?

So because the police did it, it's OK for you to do it? That's the justification you'd hear from a child: Billy hit Johnny so it's OK or me to hit Johnny, too. But the nastiness I saw in this thread about the police weren't just 'premature claims' as you put it; they were hateful insults directed at all police in general. It was used as an opportunity for some to vent their overall hatred of the police and was not confined to the police involved in the Uvalde school response.

 

[Stellafane]

I remember that time I was grazed by bullets sitting at my keyboard.

You guys act like these are battle-hardened soldiers of fortune. 99.9% of these guys time is probably spent doing routine, daily tasks. Which don't include taking gunfire. I mean it is commendable how so many claim that they would run in, guns blazing. Like, super-commendable.

I don't know how many of us participating in this thread would rush into such a situation with no thought for their own safety. At the end of the day it's unknowable, so there's no point in speculating. What I can say is that in similar situations, other police respondents have acted with vastly more decisiveness, courage, and efficacy. And so have unarmed civilians in many cases.

I'm not comparing the policemen at the scene to myself, I'm comparing them to others who have faced the same conditions and performed vastly better. Ignore that fact if you want to, and keep droning on about "keyboard warriors" if that's the only thing you've got, try to change the argument into something you can pretend to "win" rather than admit you're trying to excuse the indefensible.

 

[angrysoba]

I remember that time I was grazed by bullets sitting at my keyboard.

You guys act like these are battle-hardened soldiers of fortune. 99.9% of these guys time is probably spent doing routine, daily tasks. Which don't include taking gunfire. I mean it is commendable how so many claim that they would run in, guns blazing. Like, super-commendable.

The point is that this is the GOP plan for keeping schools safe. It doesn’t work! And it is a massively expensive drain on resources because the politicians won’t fix the problem at its root.

 

[jimbob]

From Twitter

[IMGw=640]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1447&pictureid=13119[/IMGW]

 

[alfaniner]

It's amazing that the simple act of propping open a door can have such disastrous consequences. If that teacher wasn't one of the ones killed, they are going to have a tough life for doing something so innocuous.

I dread the inevitable release of the 911 calls audio from some of the kids.

 

[Meadmaker]

No one told the cops to back down when the 19 were standing outside the door, from what I can find. Maybe you know something I don't? Kidding, you don't.

At the press conference today there was reference made to a commander on the scene. I don't think the other cops can be faulted for following orders.

 

[lobosrul5]

It's amazing that the simple act of propping open a door can have such disastrous consequences. If that teacher wasn't one of the ones killed, they are going to have a tough life for doing something so innocuous.

I dread the inevitable release of the 911 calls audio from some of the kids.

Or the shooter would have found another way in. Its an elementary school not a maximum security military facility.

 

[Warp12]

It's amazing that the simple act of propping open a door can have such disastrous consequences.

It's almost like the door, the gun, the cops, or the GOP isn't directly to blame for this. But where should we point the finger? It is so confusing. Surely, somebody must have been behind this act.

 

[Upchurch]

It's almost like the door, the gun, the cops, or the GOP isn't directly to blame for this. But where should we point the finger? It is so confusing. Surely, somebody must have been behind this act.

Are you going for "white man with a gun" or "mental illness"?