The supernatural

[Pixel42]

Hello
I accept my mistakes whenever someone says a good reason. And my arms are open. But there is no mistake in the Qur'an and the word of God. Not acceptable at all. The Qur'an is complete without the slightest mistake. I'm absolutely sure. And I believe in the Quran.

Closing your mind as completely as this to the possibility that you might be mistaken is a very bad thing, heydarian. Most atrocities were committed by people who were absolutely sure they were doing the right thing. When Jacob Bronowski stood beside the pool at Auschwitz, into which the ashes of members of his own family had been flushed, it was this quote by Oliver Cromwell which came to him: "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken".

Everyone here who has been arguing against you has made it clear that they could be convinced they are wrong by evidence. You alone are saying that you cannot. Please think about that.

 

[IanS]

Hello
I accept my mistakes whenever someone says a good reason. And my arms are open. But there is no mistake in the Qur'an and the word of God. Not acceptable at all.
The Qur'an is complete without the slightest mistake. I'm absolutely sure. And I believe in the Quran.

You are forced into admitting it yourself now - what you have is only a "belief" ... you are doing nothing else here except preaching a religious belief.

Belief is not "proof", and it also not "evidence".

Religious people like you are "entitled to your beliefs (as long as they do not become dangerous, although they very often do become lethally dangerous), but you are not entitled to claim your own facts ("fact" means certainty or "proof")".

Science has "proved" itself to be by far Man's most accurate and successful way of determining the truth about everything/anything in the world around us, from the smallest sub-atomic particle to the Big Bang, the vastness of space, the entirety of the whole universe, and everything in-between inc. animals and people on this planet ... but in all of that, no trace of your God has ever been found ...

... the evidence of science is completely 100% against you ... and that evidence is now enormous ...

... against that, all you have ever presented, is only your "beliefs" (beliefs taken entirely from ancient religious faith that was proclaimed thousands of years ago by people who were by todays standards almost 100% completely ignorant of the world around them).

 

[heydarian saeed]

Yet it completely neglects to mention both the Americas and Australia, while also completely ignoring the effects of things like the shift in length of day for core concepts like Ramadan. Not even going into the many many factual errors in there.

So what you are saying is not that your mind is open, but rather that you've closed your mind to actually *looking* at the Qur'an lest you have to admit the errors in there.

Now that is fine, but don't expect that to ever convince anyone.

Hello
These two continents are not mentioned in the Qur'an like many idioms and words in the present age. Because in the seventh century such terms did not exist. But for the existence of continents other than the earth and the lands on the earth are mentioned. It generally mentions unknown and undiscovered places such as the United States, which has been discovered for about 450 years. "Travel on earth and learn from everything" you see, which says travel on earth in general. That is, travel to any land or sea on land.
Ramadan is a lunar month. Naturally, its time in a day and month is different from the time in the Gregorian and solar months. That is, the times of the lunar months, such as Ramadan, are different everywhere on earth. And it is not the same as the times of the Gregorian and solar months. And astronomy has solved this time difference. At any point of the earth, the clock is announced separately according to the lunar or Gregorian and solar months. And there is no problem.

 

[Scorpion]

Hello
I accept my mistakes whenever someone says a good reason. And my arms are open. But there is no mistake in the Qur'an and the word of God. Not acceptable at all. The Qur'an is complete without the slightest mistake. I'm absolutely sure. And I believe in the Quran.

I groan in despair. I have pointed out many mistakes in the Quran and you dismissed them with nothing but standard mindless Muslim propaganda.

I have shown you the Quran says Noah lived to be 950 and this exactly copies the bible. But there is good reason to believe the age of Noah was miss translated in an early copy of the bible, because the scribe did not understand the ancient numbering system. So the Quran wrongly copied a translation error from the bible. I have listed the number of times the Quran says the heaven and earth were created in six days,, and you brush this aside by claiming six days does not mean six days but billions of years. Which is another standard Muslim excuse that does not hold water,

 

[heydarian saeed]

No, That is not what is meant by "Evolution".

Sub-atomic nuclear fields do not "evolve" as a "survival of their fittest". And neither do chemical reactions. That is not what is properly meant by "Evolution". The Big Bang is not "Evolution". The collapse of stars is not "Evolution". The expansion of steam from boiling water is not "Evolution" ... the explosion of an atomic bomb is not "evolution"!

Evolution is what Darwin described for the way that living species adapt to their surroundings in a way that produces new & more useful traits such as an increase in height, a longer beak, a different skin colour etc. That is what is really meant by "Evolution".

And none of that is mentioned in the Quran. That's yet another outright lie from you. Neither "evolution" of living species, or any 14 billion year-old Big Bang production of the universe is mentioned anywhere in the Quran ... that claim is an outright whopping lie ...

... you need to produce genuine independent science research papers which support your claim that from the 7th century the Quran had described Darwins evolution of species & the Big Bang ... where are the papers? ...

... just produce the papers, where are they?

... there should be tens of thousands of such papers, so just produce proper references to/from (say) half a dozen of them here ... where are they?

... they are your only way of showing any truth to your claims ... produce the papers.

You are making scientific claims here. That means you most certainly do need to produce all the genuine independent real scientific papers that are claiming to show that God told Mohamed about evolution and universe formation in 600AD ...

... that IS THE BOTTOM LINE & the END OF THE ROAD HERE ... do you have these real papers with the real science, or not?

Hello
In 16 messages and 27 verses of the Qur'an, I examined the subject of "Darwin's evolution from the perspective of the Qur'an." And I put it in the group to study. Please refer to the messages. More than that, we need to discuss this issue in another situation or group.

 

[Scorpion]

Heydarian, I have posted this before, but you clearly gained nothing from it so mods permitting I am posting it again. Read the highlighted text where it states the Quran copied the text from a book of fables, and did not even get the details of the story correct.

The story in the quran concerning Jesus childhood, about an incident where he makes a clay bird and brings it to life is not a part of the Christian bible, and the original texts are considered apocryphal. They are regarded by Christian scholars as having been written in around 150AD, as propaganda by the early Christians, attempting to fill in the missing years of Jesus life.So what are these stories doing in the quran claiming to be a message from God?

The following are two verses in the quran that contain the references.
From the Yusuf Ali translation.

003.049 "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by God's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in
your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

005.110 Then will God say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold ! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'


As can be seen the quran speaks of only one bird, and says Jesus breathed life into it. But the only historical text that contains such a story speaks of 12 birds, and they were brought to life by Jesus commanding them to "Go". Therefore the quran does not even get the details of the original fictional document correct. Added to this the New Testament states that Jesus did his first miracle at a time he was around thirty years old. (John 2.11)

Here is the relevant text, translated from Greek and written in, The Apocryphal New Testament, by M.R.James, published by Oxford: Clarendon press, 1924.
The stories of Thomas the Israelite, (not St Thomas of the bible) the philosopher, concerning the works of the childhood of the Lord.

1. I, Thomas the Israelite, tell you, and all the brethren that are Gentile, the works of the childhood of our Lord Jesus Christ and his mighty deeds, and all that he did when he was born in our land.
2.1 This little child Jesus when he was five years old was playing at the ford of a brook: and he gathered together the water that flowed there into pools, and made them clean, and commanded them by his word alone.
2.2 Having made soft clay, he fashioned twelve sparrows. It was the Sabbath when he did these things. And there were also many other little children playing with him.
2.3. A certain Jew when he saw what Jesus did, playing upon the Sabbath day, departed and told his father Joseph: your child is at the brook, and he has taken clay and fashioned twelve little birds, and has polluted the Sabbath day.
2.4. Joseph came to the place and saw: and cried out to him, saying: Why do you do these things on the Sabbath, which it is not lawful to do? But Jesus clapped his hands together and cried out to the sparrows and said to them: Go! and the sparrows took their flight and went away chirping.
2.5 when the Jews saw it they were amazed, and departed and told their chief men that which they had seen Jesus do.

There is a reference to this story, and the flaws in it in the book.
The original sources of the quran. by William St Clair Tisdall.
This book is in the public domain and can be found on the Internet.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Where are these papers from Hawking or Penrose?

Please produce actual published papers from them where they claim to show that God has produced teleportation of animals and humans ...

... where are those papers?

If you cannot produce them then that is an end to your incessant lying for Islam.

PRODUCE THE PAPERS.

Hello
We have a few verses in the Qur'an that say: All beings in the universe (living and inanimate) are conscious. And they know their God. And they worship God. This is completely scientific. Professor Suarez proved this scientifically by experimenting with photons. As you know: Photons are the smallest structural particle in the universe. I have left this to you with full explanation in the 1998 and 1999 messages. Please refer. I also said in message 2279 that: Penrose, who is Hawking's master, proved teleportation. And scientifically proven. Teleportation is mentioned in 4 verses in the Quran. And in the revelation of the Holy Bible verse 5 is mentioned. The resurrection of Jesus was by teleportation. And it is explained that all human beings will be recreated in the same way teleportation.
And they enter the new Jerusalem (heavenly and beautiful) with a new earth and a new heaven.

But your main answer is: Hawking-Penrose-Suarez did not say at all that their discoveries are in the Qur'an. Or God has said. No. They did not say. And they do not need to say that. I am a Muslim Quran researcher. I have checked. And I have seen that in the verses of the Qur'an, which God said in the seventh century, all these discoveries are mentioned. This is the claim of the Qur'an. And it is true. And I have examined this matter in the Qur'an. And I have found. The scientific contents of the Qur'an should be studied and found by a Qur'anic researcher. This is not the job of scientists. it is my duty. I love the Quran. And the Qur'an tells me: Yes, I have all this scientific material. You check and find it. I do this with all my love for the Qur'an.
All this scientific material in the Qur'an is pure truth. There are no lies. We humans lie. The Quran is pure. We do not understand it. Open your eyes well, read the Qur'an and see that all the knowledge of the day is in the Qur'an. Of course, with the names and sentences that were said in the seventh century. If we want to understand, we have to decrypt. Of course, deciphering the Qur'an is very simple and easy. I have told you many examples in this group. I repeat again. "I swear when the star is born" means that White holes exist in space. "I swear by the time of the destruction and fall of the star" means that wormholes and black holes exist in space. It is very simple and understandable. A strong barrier of prejudice will not let you understand. There is no need to understand this. Everyone understands the winner. And whoever does not understand will not get anywhere.

 

[Scorpion]

Heydarian, you said above, Teleportation is mentioned in 4 verses in the Quran.
If you are claiming verse 17.1 is one of those verses I have already pointed out the night journey to the farthest mosque is considered to have been accomplished by him flying on a winged donkey, not by teleportation.

 

[heydarian saeed]

I am not sure of your quote numbers, please consider posting the entire verses you are referring to. But if you are citing surah 17.1 that refers to Muhammad's night journey, this was reputedly accomplished by his riding a flying animal like a donkey. Not by teleportation.

Hello
It is you who are saying superstitions. There was no donkey at work. You probably have a donkey that is faster than the speed of light. we do not want. Our technology is extremely advanced. We come to the teleport method. But you live in exactly the seventh century. Greet the ignorant people there.
You seem to be influenced by Balaam's thoughts. It leads people to sin with superstitions. There are many followers of Balaam among the people. People need to be vigilant. And do not be deceived by these.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Hello
These two continents are not mentioned in the Qur'an like many idioms and words in the present age. Because in the seventh century such terms did not exist. But for the existence of continents other than the earth and the lands on the earth are mentioned. It generally mentions unknown and undiscovered places such as the United States, which has been discovered for about 450 years. "Travel on earth and learn from everything" you see, which says travel on earth in general. That is, travel to any land or sea on land.
Ramadan is a lunar month. Naturally, its time in a day and month is different from the time in the Gregorian and solar months. That is, the times of the lunar months, such as Ramadan, are different everywhere on earth. And it is not the same as the times of the Gregorian and solar months. And astronomy has solved this time difference. At any point of the earth, the clock is announced separately according to the lunar or Gregorian and solar months. And there is no problem.

No eating between sun up and sun down combined with a polar day = problem.

But you will never see that, nor all the other inconsistencies, errors and omissions in your holy book because by your own admission you have closed your mind against examining them.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Here is what the Quran says about unbelievers:


Chapter 4 The Women - An-Nisa: Verse 151
They are in truth (equally) unbelievers; and we have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment.

Chapter 18 The cave - Al-Kahf: Verse 102
Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment.

Chapter 18 The cave- Al-Kahf: Verse
And We shall present Hell that day for Unbelievers to see, all spread out,-

Chapter 33 The Coalition - Al-Ahzab: Verse 64
Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers and prepared for them a Blazing Fire,-

Chapter 38 Sad - Sad: Verse 27
Not without purpose did We create heaven and earth and all between! that were the thought of Unbelievers! but woe to the Unbelievers because of the Fire (of Hell)!

Chapter 40 The Forgiver - Ghafir: Verse 6
Thus was the Decree of thy Lord proved true against the Unbelievers; that truly they are Companions of the Fire!

Chapter 51 The winnowing winds - Adh-Dhariyat: Verse 60
Woe, then, to the Unbelievers, on account of that Day of theirs which they have been promised!


Chapter 9 Repentance - At-Taubah: Verse 73
O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

Chapter 13 The Thunder- Ar-Rad: Verse 32
Mocked were (many) messengers before thee: but I granted respite to the unbelievers, and finally I punished them: Then how (terrible) was my requital!


Chapter 14 Abraham - Ibrahim: Verse 2
Of Allah, to Whom do belong all things in the heavens and on earth! But alas for the Unbelievers for a terrible penalty (their Unfaith will bring them)!-


Chapter 21 The Prophets - Al-Anbiya: Verse 98
Verily ye, (unbelievers), and the (false) gods that ye worship besides Allah, are (but) fuel for Hell! to it will ye (surely) come!


Chapter 24 The Light - An-Noor: Verse 57
Never think thou that the Unbelievers are going to frustrate (Allah's Plan) on earth: their abode is the Fire,- and it is indeed an evil refuge!

Chapter 32 The Prostration - As-Sajda: Verse 29
Say: "On the Day of Decision, no profit will it be to Unbelievers if they (then) believe! nor will they be granted a respite."

Chapter 33 The Coalition - Al-Ahzab: Verse 8
That (Allah) may question the (custodians) of Truth concerning the Truth they (were charged with): And He has prepared for the Unbelievers a grievous Penalty.

Chapter 41 Explained in detail - Fussilat: Verse 27
But We will certainly give the Unbelievers a taste of a severe Penalty, and We will requite them for the worst of their deeds.


Chapter 42 Council, Consultation - Ash-Shura: Verse 26
And He listens to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, and gives them increase of His Bounty: but for the Unbelievers their is a terrible Penalty.

Chapter 66 Banning - At-Tahrim: Verse 9
O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed).

Chapter 8 Spoils of war, booty- Al-Anfal: Verse 36
The Unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from the path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have (only) regrets and sighs; at length they will be overcome: and the Unbelievers will be gathered together to Hell;-


Chapter 22 The Pilgrimage - Al-Hajj: Verse 72
When Our Clear Signs are rehearsed to them, thou wilt notice a denial on the faces of the Unbelievers! they nearly attack with violence those who rehearse Our Signs to them. Say, "Shall I tell you of something (far) worse than these Signs? It is the Fire (of Hell)! Allah has promised it to the Unbelievers! and evil is that destination!"

Chapter 3 The family of Imran -Aal-e-Imran: Verse 151
Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!


Chapter 3 The family of Imran - Aal-e-Imran: Verse 178
Let not the Unbelievers think that our respite to them is good for themselves: We grant them respite that they may grow in their iniquity: But they will have a shameful punishment.

Chapter 5 The Table Spread - Al-Maeda: Verse 80
Thou seest many of them turning in friendship to the Unbelievers. Evil indeed are (the works) which their souls have sent forward before them (with the result), that Allah's wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide.

Chapter 8 Spoils of war, booty - Al-Anfal: Verse 50
If thou couldst see, when the angels take the souls of the Unbelievers (at death), (How) they smite their faces and their backs, (saying): "Taste the penalty of the blazing Fire-

Chapter 9 Repentance - At-Taubah: Verse 26
But Allah did pour His calm on the Messenger and on the Believers, and sent down forces which ye saw not: He punished the Unbelievers; thus doth He reward those without Faith.


Chapter 9 Repentance - At-Taubah: Verse 49
Among them is (many) a man who says: "Grant me exemption and draw me not into trial." Have they not fallen into trial already? and indeed Hell surrounds the Unbelievers (on all sides).


Chapter 9 Repentance - At-Taubah: Verse 90
And there were, among the desert Arabs (also), men who made excuses and came to claim exemption; and those who were false to Allah and His Messenger (merely) sat inactive. Soon will a grievous penalty seize the Unbelievers among them.

Chapter 21 The Prophets - Al-Anbiya: Verse 39
If only the Unbelievers knew (the time) when they will not be able to ward off the fire from their faces, nor yet from their backs, and (when) no help can reach them!


Chapter 21 The Prophets- Al-Anbiya: Verse 97
Then will the true promise draw nigh (of fulfilment): then behold! the eyes of the Unbelievers will fixedly stare in horror: "Ah! Woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay, we truly did wrong!"

Ten messages from 1962 to 1972 You left the verses of the punishment of the infidels in the Qur'an. You repeated the same thing again in the long message 2147. I answered you briefly and usefully in message 2157. You repeat with again. You desperately need rest. Go to the bedroom. Close the windows. Pull the curtains. Cover your eyes as well. To be in a completely calm and quiet atmosphere. Calm your soul. All this effort is harmful to you at this age. Hope to see.

 

[Scorpion]

You are not careful !! I have said to you and other friends many times: Hell and the torments of hell are just parables. In order for human beings not to approach sin. It is just a metaphor. Hell is singularity. The universe is back to this point. We all experience it. Why aren't you careful man? What are you worried about? It is the destiny of the universe to return to singularity.
You bother in vain. Rest.

Yes, in post 2157 you deny all the verses about hell as nothing but parables.

You dare to reject what the Quran plainly says at the same time as claiming the Quran is all true. You just deny anything that you do not like.

 

[Scorpion]

Ten messages from 1962 to 1972 You left the verses of the punishment of the infidels in the Qur'an. You repeated the same thing again in the long message 2147. I answered you briefly and usefully in message 2157. You repeat with again. You desperately need rest. Go to the bedroom. Close the windows. Pull the curtains. Cover your eyes as well. To be in a completely calm and quiet atmosphere. Calm your soul. All this effort is harmful to you at this age. Hope to see.

You realize that some of the verses about unbelievers being cursed are supposedly the actual words of God. do you now deny those words?

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Hello
I accept my mistakes whenever someone says a good reason. And my arms are open. But there is no mistake in the Qur'an and the word of God. Not acceptable at all. The Qur'an is complete without the slightest mistake. I'm absolutely sure. And I believe in the Quran.

So you're claiming that absolutely nothing could convince you that you're wrong?

 

[heydarian saeed]

Closing your mind as completely as this to the possibility that you might be mistaken is a very bad thing, heydarian. Most atrocities were committed by people who were absolutely sure they were doing the right thing. When Jacob Bronowski stood beside the pool at Auschwitz, into which the ashes of members of his own family had been flushed, it was this quote by Oliver Cromwell which came to him: "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken".

Everyone here who has been arguing against you has made it clear that they could be convinced they are wrong by evidence. You alone are saying that you cannot. Please think about that.

Hello
You said in your previous message: My answers are not enough. I completely agree with you. I do not understand more than this. And my knowledge is limited. I answer as much as I know. Of course, as you say, it is not enough. You are right. In this message, you raised another fact. Here, too, you are absolutely right. I know that they accept only with objective evidence. And they only know the objective evidence and the laboratory and nothing else. Well, the Quran does not have a laboratory. His objective evidence to prove his claims is the universe. Everything in the universe is eyewitness to the claims of the Qur'an. I accept this claim and content from the Qur'an. But you do not have to. That's why you deny it. you are right. There is no objective evidence of the Qur'an in the laboratory. Not with valid scientific evidence that the world of science knows.
But even if we consider the claims of the Qur'an as just a prediction. We see that the prophecies of the Qur'an come true. And there are many scientific discoveries in the prophecies of the Qur'an. And has been proven. This is what I told you in this group. what is your opinion? How good and beautiful you speak. I agree with you on many issues. We have a parable. That: the word that comes from the heart will surely sit in the heart. That is, we understand each other well. this is very good.
Thanks

 

[Mojo]

And there are many scientific discoveries in the prophecies of the Qur'an. And has been proven. This is what I told you in this group. what is your opinion?

My opinion is that you need to provide actual evidence for this, rather than bald assertions.

 

[heydarian saeed]

You realize that some of the verses about unbelievers being cursed are supposedly the actual words of God. do you now deny those words?

You do not understand what I mean. Nothing in the Qur'an can be denied. There is no denying it. "These verses are about the seventh-century infidels." Are you a seventh-century infidel? If you are one of them or you think and act like them, these verses will apply to you. If you are not, then do not repeat this. Do not repeat your words about this.

 

[Scorpion]

You do not understand what I mean. Nothing in the Qur'an can be denied. There is no denying it. "These verses are about the seventh-century infidels." Are you a seventh-century infidel? If you are one of them or you think and act like them, these verses will apply to you. If you are not, then do not repeat this. Do not repeat your words about this.

What kind of twisted logic is that. ? If the Quran is Gods words then it should be absolutely true. The Quran says the curse of God is on unbelievers at verse 2.161

Is this what you believe or not?

 

[heydarian saeed]

My opinion is that you need to provide actual evidence for this, rather than bald assertions.

Scientific prediction does not require objective evidence. Where do you say that?

 

[Mojo]

What kind of twisted logic is that. ?

Religious twisted logic.