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Is vegetarianism foolish?

TV's Frank said:
My roommate is a vegetarian, because (he claims) that it's more efficient. It takes more energy to raise a cow than raise some corn.

Thoughts?

Interestingly, he also hates being a vegetarian. He hates the taste of all those soy "meat replacement" foods. Yet, he digs right in.
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Efficiency... is very difficult to assess.

Meat substitutes are not really interesting to anybody but carnivores who are trying to serve something to vegetarians and are misled into thinking vegetarians feel "deprived", and Adventist hospital food service departments, which mistakenly think carnivores will feel "deprived" if they don't at least get their Tofurky.

The world's ethnic cuisines provide unimaginable vegetarian variety involving no meat-wannabes at all. Faves of mine include Chinese, Indian, Ethiopian, and Middle-Eastern food, and there's good stuff to be found in Mexican, Cuban, Italian, even Hungarian food.
 
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jimtron said:
What do you mean "animal vs. a human?" What kind of situation would entail choosing between human and animal?

If you're against cruelty against animals, than you have that in common with vegetarians.
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In addition to medical research, there's also exploitation of natural resources. For instance, we can't drill oil in Alaska because there's a Nature Preserve there. IMO, to heck with Nature, I want cheaper gas.

Marc
 
DrMatt said:
I've not taken a B12 supplement in the last 25 years, and am doing just fine, thank you.
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Probably because whatever food you have been eating has been supplemented for you. You can't get it from a purely vegetarian diet. Sorry.

OTOH, if you truly have not had any B12 in 25 years, then indeed that may help to explain your general weirdness and perhaps, if you're unlucky enough, even a yet-undiagnosed megaloblastic anemia, as well.

-Dr. Imago
 
Dr. Imago said:
Probably because whatever food you have been eating has been supplemented for you. You can't get it from a purely vegetarian diet. Sorry.

OTOH, if you truly have not had any B12 in 25 years, then indeed that may help to explain your general weirdness and perhaps, if you're unlucky enough, even a yet-undiagnosed megaloblastic anemia, as well.

-Dr. Imago
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Heh.

Well, seriously, I've known vegetarians who were just fine. Most of these were ovo-lacto vegetarians or lacto vegetarians, but there were a few vegans in the lot, all of whom took B-12 supplements.

On the other hand, I've known a lot of vegans and even vegetarians who were not fine. I've known vegetarians who insisted that they were healthy but who, on a daily basis, complained of numerous joint and other musculoskeletal problems. I've known vegetarians who had extremely labile moods and were constantly irascible. I've known vegetarians whose faces were covered in wrinkles by age 30, making them look a lot older.

We're omnivores. However you want to define food groups doesn't really matter, but there are a lot of different kinds of foods out there. Most of them provide something that we need. A lot of them, if eaten in excess, can cause problems. Too much animal product can elevate cholesterol; too many carrots can cause vitamin A toxicity; too many leafy green vegetables can cause blood clots, usually winding up in the lungs but sometimes leading to an elevated risk of stroke; too much wheat and barley will lead some people to develop sprue; etc.

Too little can also be a problem. Before iodized salt, inland people tended to get goiters. Animal fat is used by the body to lubricate joints, and too little of that can be a problem.

Also, we adapt to diets. There are various things that live in the gut that help us digest certain foods. If you go without these foods for a long thing, they die off, and re-introducing those foods causes problems. A lot of Americans and Canadians don't eat much sweet fruit. A lot of people who travel to Mexico and get the runs don't really have the Montezuma's Revenge parasite (which is no big deal anyway, because you can get treatments OTC in any Mexican pharmacy). Usually, it's just that they're not used to having so much fruit in the diet. Similarly, a vegetarian who eats a steak will have some problems.

Also, there are individual and regional/racial variations. A robust Bavarian is not going to have the same optimal diet as a gracile Indian. People with no Middle East or North African ancestry are far less likely to have problems with fava beans.
 
Vegetarians are left of centre, vegetarians are weird, Hitler was a vegetarian.

I have read about meat eaters who are left of centre, weird or are dictators.
 
People who don't eat meat cause no problems for me. I have two simple rules that make life with people on this particular form of restricted diet easy.

1. Don't expect me to accomodate your self-inflicted dietary restriction. I might, but don't expect it. You don't have to accomodate my culinary eccentricities either. If I'm at your house and all you eat is vegetables, I will gladly and graciously eat them, because I am a guest.

2. Don't expect me not to kick your ass when you get smug and sanctimonious about your self-inflicted dietary restriction. I might not, but don't expect it. If I'm at your house I promise not to expound upon the values of eating meat and why vegetarianism is wrong, because I am a guest.

3. Vegans tend to me skinnier than average and contribute to young women's unrealistic perceptions of the ideal body. Therefore vegans hate women. (Just kidding). ;)

Live and let live. Easy. But like so many other things, it has to go both ways for everyone to get along.

I'm a vegetarian too. I just also happen to eat meat. And what's more, I have no desire to bring up the topic every time food is mentioned, unlike the vegans I personally know. (Big secret - for some people it's just TRENDY to be vegan). That IS one of the stupid reasons to be vegan. (not implying that all reasons are stupid, of course).
 
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Ed said:
So, when you say "get a life" you are saying that the person should run around in a Florida field, naked, eating scrub?

Interesting.
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If by "scrub" you mean "tasty spring-greens salad with wasabi-ranch dressing", and if by "field" you mean "large shopping mall or plaza", and if by "Florida" you mean "someplace just as warm, but without so many retirees, rednecks, and tourists"; then yes, I would agree with that wholeheartedly.
 
DrMatt said:
Efficiency... is very difficult to assess.

Meat substitutes are not really interesting to anybody but carnivores who are trying to serve something to vegetarians and are misled into thinking vegetarians feel "deprived", and Adventist hospital food service departments, which mistakenly think carnivores will feel "deprived" if they don't at least get their Tofurky..
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Actually, meat substitutes are interesting to those of us who are vegetarians with no interest in eating meat (in my case, not wanting to become violently ill from eating meat); but for some bizarre, unfathomable reason, really miss the junk food.

Mmmm... veggie corn dogs....
 
Red Siegfried said:
1. Don't expect me to accomodate your self-inflicted dietary restriction. I might, but don't expect it. You don't have to accomodate my culinary eccentricities either. If I'm at your house and all you eat is vegetables, I will gladly and graciously eat them, because I am a guest.
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I will add 1a). If you feed me something, and I enjoy it, and you think that it's clever to say "Didja miss the meat? Huh? Huh? Didja miss the meat?" then you can reasonably expect to be treated like an idiot.
 
luchog said:
Actually, meat substitutes are interesting to those of us who are vegetarians with no interest in eating meat (in my case, not wanting to become violently ill from eating meat); but for some bizarre, unfathomable reason, really miss the junk food.

Mmmm... veggie corn dogs....
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Heh... I recall having some veggie hot dogs (the only thing worse than a hot dog is a fake hot dog) and some veggie "chicken nuggets", which, from the texture, were kinda like breaded chicken flavored hairballs.
 
i find it facinating that western society likes to condemn people who are different. try going around and saying you don't eat meat and you are considered "wierd". try to go to a party and not drink alcohol! i suppose there must have been a time when you would have been an outsider if you didn't smoke some form of tobacco.

i was a vegetarian for a year. yes, meat is murder, but its not like we are the only animals on the planet who find nutritional value by killing some other species. at the time, i was more into a global-social thing ... raising animals for food take enourmous resources and energy, and those resources could be put to better use doing other things ... you should check out the chapter from michael moore's "stupid white men" about the lake of pig feces!
 
casebro said:
Now I'm wondering about the placebo effect of the Christian ritual of eating the body and blood of Christ. Do malnourished Xtians gain a boost of brain power? or is the boost strictly spiritual?
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Yeah. I've wondered about the Nutrition Facts on the communion wafers. Is that before or after transubstantiation?
 
shecky said:
Heh... I recall having some veggie hot dogs (the only thing worse than a hot dog is a fake hot dog) and some veggie "chicken nuggets", which, from the texture, were kinda like breaded chicken flavored hairballs.
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Hairballs are an animal product. Can't have that.

But I've wondered about this, too. If I were a vegetarian, and I felt a hankering for junk food, I'd go eat some falafel. There's just no point in little synthetic wieners.
 
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