• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Is vegetarianism foolish?

I've never thought of vegetarianism as foolish. As people have pointed out there are lots of different reasons people might go that route.

On the other hand, I think veganism is a bit wacky. We shouldn't eat honey because the manufacturers are exploiting bees.
 
Some of those non-Muslim pig-avoiders (make sure you parse that correctly...) are called "Jews."
Though "filthy" isn't really the justification for Jews.

I did a bit of research on the Jewish dietary laws (at least the basic ones shared by Christians, not the extended, nit-picky ones); and all of them have good, solid reasons for existing; particularly in a semi-nomadic agrarian culture.

The slaughtering method ensures that your only eating healthy animals, and not getting a big dose of adrenaline and such in the meat.

Most of the proscribed animals are prone to transmissible parasites of various sorts, have a bad body fat balance (rabbit, for example, needs to be supplemented by other fat sources because it's too lean to supply adequate HDLs), contain toxins or other undesireable substances, and so on.

As to the issue of vegetarianism and health, I think when people think of "healthy vegetarian," they mean "not overweight vegetarian," since if you eliminate meats, you right away knock out a major source of saturated fats. The other sources of the good stuff meat provides (protein, iron, etc) are very low fat- things like spinach and beans. So just a simple replacement means that you're going to be a lot healthier.

However, there is nothing unveggie about frying stuff. An Awesome Blossom is much more along the lines of bioautoterrorism than a lean piece of chicken. It's quite possible for a given vegetarian to be less healthy than a given meat eater.
I know at least a couple seriouslu overweight vegetarians; and at least one vegan. It doesn't make much sense to complain about all the bad stuff in meat when you're busy stuffing yourself with hydrogenated tropical oils (coconut, palm, palm kernel, etc.) which are higher in LDLs than any animal alive.

I'm a vegetarian, though not vegan, for pretty much one reason: I have a mild allergy and cannot digest the stuff as well as I should be able to. My reaction ranges from barely-noticible discomfort, to violent illness and migraines that leave me bedridden for days. And I'm not talking about junk food, either; but clean, healthy, even organically-raised, beef, pork, chicken, etc. Any kind of animal, really.

I can eat fish on occasion, but not often. I haven't tried any reptile, but I'm willing to bet I'd have problems with those as well. I do much better with eggs and dairy products (mmm, cheese) as long as I don't binge on them. Because of my allergy, I don't really care for the taste of meat, and haven't missed it since I quit eating it. The taste can actually make me naseous if i accidentally get any.

After I quit eating meat, I noticed after a very short time that I had more energy overall, and didn't get sick nearly as often. Been vegetarian for over 14 years now.

I have a friend who is just the opposite. Because of some medical condition (i don't recall what), his doctor told him that he needs a diet heavily based in meat, specifically red meat; and he can get very weak and sick if he doesn't eat quite a bit of the stuff.
 
I can't see any problems with vegetarianism. I do know many vegetarians. A few are kinda flaky and/or foolish. One couple in particular is pretty annoying about it, throwing tantrums if they find, for example, the pasta sauce they just ate had some small amount of meat in it. And their son... few things are worse than a sanctimonious eight year old. I never understood their stance on the subject. Seems quasi religious, and if they are on some kind of crusade.
 
Second Thoughts

Going back a bit, are most vegetarians left of center? I don't know. Hitler was a vegetarian. It is written he fed the mice in his cell when he was incarcerated in pre-Fuhrer days. Practicing to be King Rat?
 
Hi all,

Just registered (been lurking and enjoying for a long time) and my first post is an admission of foolish psuedo-vegetarianism. :D
The two main reasons I eat very little meat are:
- I feel that if I couldn't slaughter it myself, I won't eat it. I would have trouble slaughtering a cow for food if it was not neccesary. I can kill a fish, though, and enjoy eating it on occasion. Double standard indeed. Could I train myself to get over my emotions and kill cattle or poultry? Definitely, but I don't need to because...
- Like ysabella had mentioned above, I'm one of those people who just doesn't really like the taste or texture much. I grew up eating plenty of assorted meats until I was 20 or so, and I just got kind of bored of it (meatloaf again, ma?!). I love cooking and I know I could prep it in an interesting way, but I don't feel an urge to since I really enjoy vegetarian cooking.

That said, the BS that many of the vegetarians/vegans I've met like to spout off about the evils of meat/eggs/dairy really irritates me. If someone doesn't like it, fine, but making false claims to justify a position is silly. I'll call you on it as quick as any meat-eating skeptic out there.

Anyway, enjoy your meal!
 
the cattle live actual lives, but it's worth it.


So, when you say "get a life" you are saying that the person should run around in a Florida field, naked, eating scrub?

Interesting.
 
Hi all -

Another new regesteree, and indeed a vegetarian here - I seem to be the exception in that I don't eat meat purely because I don't much like the taste. I used to eat all sorts of things before I was around two, but the moment I got a choice I went for the meat-free option. Not only does this mysterify my carnivore friends, it also seems to dissappoint all those looking for complex moral arguments explaining my antipathy to the pleasures of the flesh...

I have to admit I've heard some damn foolish arguments for vegetarianism in the moral sphere, though. If you insist that all (animal? fungus? bacterial?) life is precious, then you're going to have great fun sweeping all those ants out of your path. Naturally, it's usually squeamishness that wins the day, and if it's not furry/domestic then people usually don't care - I live in Oxford, UK, most of the time, which is animal-rights-protest central, and I've never seen anyone protesting against genetic experiments on fruit flies. And not only was Hitler vegetarian, but he also banned vivisection whilst allowing medical experiments to be conducted on live humans!
 
Tool said:
And the angel of the lord came unto me, snatching me up from my place of slumber. And took me on high, and higher still until we moved to the spaces betwixt the air itself. And he brought me into a vast farmlands of our own midwest. And as we descended, cries of impending doom rose from the soil. One thousand, nay a million voices full of fear. And terror possesed me then. And I begged, "Angel of the Lord, what are these tortured screams?" And the angel said unto me, "These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots! You see, Reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust." And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat like the tears of one million terrified brothers and roared, "Hear me now, I have seen the light! They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers!" Can I get an amen? Can I get a hallelujah? Thank you Jesus. Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on........ This is necessary.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I'll go slink into the corner now.
 
You're kidding, right?

It's not the mud that they allegedly wallow in that led to pigs' "filthy" reputation, but rather their tendency to host desease and parasites and transmit them in their meat -- e.g., trichinosis.

That's special pleading.

Trichinosis is unpleasant for a month, but it is very unlikely to kill you. Anthrax can kill you. However, the prime anthrax carriers are the Kosher/Halal animals, i.e. the clean ones. Pigs rarely if ever carry anthrax. Similar is true with other soil bacteria that infect humans.

Modern swine raising techniques have rendered these concerns moot. But then the religious restrictions against pork by Jews is, strictly speaking, because God said so, not, ostensibly, because they're filthy animals.

Correct.
 
Vegetarianism is neither foolish nor wise. It's a way of eating.
Those who claim to justify it on any basis other than aesthetics are almost certainly overextending their arguments.
But there's nothing foolish nor wise about aesthetics.
 
Going back a bit, are most vegetarians left of center? I don't know. Hitler was a vegetarian. It is written he fed the mice in his cell when he was incarcerated in pre-Fuhrer days. Practicing to be King Rat?

Actually, he wasn't. It's true that he didn't eat much meat, but one of his favorite dishes was roast quail.
 
Thought i would add to the choir a bit.

Both my parents are vegetarians(have been for 30+ years, if not more).

Yeasterday my made some Pirogs for an xmas dinner today, half with meat.

Both eat pancakes and bread with eggs in them.

For them it is just the taste/texture. Something i can kinda agree on, i can't stand sheep/lamp meat myself.

Personally, i'm not a vegetarian, but i think it is stupid to be one because of many of the reasons i hear, if it is something like "lactose intollerant" or "dont' like it", then that is aok of course. But once it comes down to a moral choise.... Well, i think i'll just quote Denis Leary.

Don't eat the Tuna fish!
Why?
Dolphins get stuck in the nets!
What about the tuna fish?
Oh **** them they taste good!

That is especially for the ones that say bird and fish aren't meat.. WHAT???

I have never been able to fathom how bird and fish isn't meant, someone please explain that.

So, we draw the line with mammals? no, ok, animals, so fungie is ok to eat? well, why is it? what about insects? Ok so anything that has mucles is wrong?

How arbitrary. :/
 
I have never been able to fathom how bird and fish isn't meant, someone please explain that.

I can't explain that either!

Someone came to my farm once, and they were looking at the rabbits. I asked them if they had ever eaten rabbit. They said, no, they did not eat red meat. So I explained that rabbit is NOT red meat, it is white meat. Maybe that is where the "bird and fish isn't meat" came from - someone thinking, well, they are not RED meat.

However it came about, it seems goofy. Why do you need a reason to eat or not eat something? No one ever asks why I don't eat sweet pickles (I loathe them) and I don't feel any overwhelming need to explain some kind of philosophy for not eating sweet pickles. There are lots of food items out there - eat the ones you like and that are available, and don't worry about what everyone else eats. At least, that is my philosophy about food! :)
 
Going back a bit, are most vegetarians left of center? I don't know. Hitler was a vegetarian. It is written he fed the mice in his cell when he was incarcerated in pre-Fuhrer days. Practicing to be King Rat?

I don't see how you can call anyone who eats sausages daily a 'vegetarian', but maybe your usage of the word is a bit looser than mine.

EDIT: phudge, epepke beat me to it.
 
So, when you say "get a life" you are saying that the person should run around in a Florida field, naked, eating scrub?

Hey, the running around naked in a Florida field works for me, although I do prefer the buffet at the swinger's club.
 
That is especially for the ones that say bird and fish aren't meat.. WHAT???

I have never been able to fathom how bird and fish isn't meant, someone please explain that.

Back in the 1920s, meat, fish, and fowl were separate categories. Some people thought that meat (but not fish and fowl) were bad for you. From a popular song of the period:

Listen big boy,
Now that I've got you made.
Goodness but I'm afraid.
Something's gonna happen to you.
Listen big boy.
You've got me hooked and how!

Button up your overcoat when the wind is free.
Take good care of yourself, you belong to me.
Eat an apple every day. Get to bed by three.
Take good care of yourself, you belong to me.
Be careful crossing streets. ooh, ooh
Don't eat meats. ooh, ooh.
Cut out sweets, ooh, ooh.
You'll get a pain and ruin your tum tum.
Keep away from bootleg hootch
When you're on a spree.
Take good care of yourself, you belong to me.
 
Was waiting to see how long it would take before the "Hitler was vegetarian" canard showed up. Not very long as it appears.

Vegetarianism in Europe (especially eastern Europe) would be a serious bore. No options at all. Otherwise it is purely a personal thing.

I think the rabid vegetarians are just rabid people who happen to be vegetarian. They could have been rabid Christians.

What percentage of western vegetarians are sceptics/atheists?? May be higher than the general public?
 
I've always liked the argument that cows are docile creatures which would never hurt anything. I grew up on a farm and have been kicked, head butted and generally knocked around. When I hear a vegan use that argument (it's genearlly the more rabid ones that use that) my reply is usually that explains why I eat meat then, when a cow kicks me it becomes lunch.
 
Heh.

Having grown up a farm boy, myself, I can sympathize. I had a cow stand on my foot while I was trying to feed the thing....f'kin OUCH!

As for sheep...well...sheep and goats are pretty much none too bright After all, these are animals you have to keep from urinating on their own food. Sheep are slightly brighter, in my experience, but it's kinda like saying you're slightly brighter than a toaster. It doesn't take much.

The brightest animals around the farm was probably our cats.

Once again, I LIKE meat. It's tasty.

If you don't like meat, then more for me. If you're going to act like an idiot at my table while I'm eating, I'll probably ask you to leave. I'll even ask politely, the first time. If you're in my house, you may want to tone down your rhetoric. Just a suggestion.

If I am in your house, I'll take a Portabello sandwich, please. Thanks!
 

Back
Top Bottom