Is vegetarianism foolish?

[Miggins]

If anything's making them fat, it's the lard-laced pastries at the Konditori (sorry if I spelt that horribly wrongly).

And lard is....?

 

[Euromutt]

So nothing. You don`t get vegetarians very often waving a tofu burger under your nose going `COME ON, HAVE SOME OF THIS!` though, do you?

Maybe not, but since I attend a rather granola college, I've had occasion to come across plenty of vegetarians and (especially) vegans who are just as annoying, albeit in different ways. Try standing in line at the cafeteria with a ham sandwich on your tray and with two trust fund hippie vegans behind you ostentatiously talking to each other (though loud enough for everyone in a quarter-mile radius to hear) about how much better they feel about their consciences since they gave up exploiting animals, and you'll find it's at least as annoying. They may not be shoving their food in your face, but they are shoving their perceived moral superiority in your face, and the latter doesn't smell any better.

And lard is....?

...used a lot by Danish pâtissiers, apparently.

 

[Shinryuu]

Wow...
What is it about vegetarianism and meat that produces such heated discussions? Why, if everyone was this concerned about what they ate, we wouldn't even know what obesity was!
Oh right, about the iron/protein/whatever other vitamins/minerals discussion...

Iron: Anise seeds contain more iron per gram then any piece of meat. The only things that get close are intestines (Liver/Lungs/Spleen). Flesh (Steaks, chicken wings, etc) isn't rich in iron at all. There's a whole host of veggies/seeds/nuts that have over double the iron per gram.
Protein: The amount of protein varies greatly for every type of meat depending on it's source. Most common types of meat don't even contain that much protein. Often, there's more fat then protein in the meat. And although many people like to repeat myths about amino acids, veggies/seeds/nuts all have an amount of every amino acid. In fact, pumpkin seeds have more complete proteins then most meat types. (I think the only few exceptions are salmon and tuna)

So the only thing that can come close to proving the statement that being a vegetarian is unhealthy are the health risks associated with a B-12 shortage. I believe it can cause some serious damage to the nervous system since B-12 is used for the nervous system. So...for 1 vitamin, I'd say it's not a big problem to use supplements.

And about the initial question...
Being a vegetarian isn't really foolish, it's the motivation that can make it foolish. Predators have existed since...well...since life did. Only in the form of bacteria and other single celled organisms. But if we take the safe way and take a look at the time of dinosaurs, we can at least state with 100% accuracy that predators existed back then. Now that's already been millions of years ago, seems kind of silly why it would stop now with the introduction of "ethics". So the consumption of animals really isn't the problem, as it has existed for quite a long time without any problems. And as others have already pointed out, removing the predators actually has a much more horrific outcome. The only reason that I would see as "rational" for being a vegetarian is the one I have, bio-industry. Actually, I'm not really a vegetarian, I still eat non-cultivated meat. There's nothing really wrong with eating meat itself, it's the way we put the meat on our plate that's the problem. It's not even worth discussing wheter it's bad how animals are abused by people for profits and science. Everyone has his own view on wheter this is ethical or not, all I can say is: Don't complain when the same thing happens, but is put in a different light. Because when it's baby seals getting clubbed to death, or elephants being killed for their tusks, then it's suddenly "horrible" and "disgusting" while the very same thing is happening 24/7 in the bio-industry and labs with animals that haven't been living a happy life in the wild like the elephants and seals. And forcing vegetarian eating habits on predators is what I call "animal abuse". And yes, I know dogs can actually prefer vegetarian food over meat, I have 4 of them myself. But it's still animal abuse because dogs simply don't have the ability to live without meat.

 

[Beleth]

My main New Year's Resolution is to only eat meat on special occasions. The main reason for this is to get me home for dinner more often (my spouse is a vegetarian) and not stop at Yack In The Box on my way home from work 3 nights a week.

But still, there are health reasons which Loon's saturated-fat statement summed up nicely. It's easier to cook a low-fat veggie meal than it is to cook a low-fat hamburger.

 

[Rat]

I`m surprised the old `Hitler was a vegetarian` argument hasn`t surfaced yet, as if all veggies were repressed Nazis bent upon world domination.

I'm surprised that you haven't seen it, as well. I brought it up a couple of pages back, and then a couple of other people expressed their surprise that no one had brought it up, and then you did. Does no one actually read these threads?

Cheers,
Rat.

 

[Loon]

But still, there are health reasons which Loon's saturated-fat statement summed up nicely. It's easier to cook a low-fat veggie meal than it is to cook a low-fat hamburger.

Oh dear. Another person who immediately thinks "Loon" when he hears the phrase "saturated fat." Time to dry off and head for the gym!

It sort of doesn't matter that some of us have never met a fat vegetarian or an annoying carnivore, unless those same people wish to assert that such fat and annoying people don't exist; to do so, you'd pretty much be asserting that vegetarian is 100% protection from getting fat or annoying.


Did you know Hitler was a vegetarian?

 

[Beleth]

Wow...
What is it about vegetarianism and meat that produces such heated discussions?

I think it's the inferred holier-than-thou attitude many panterians* hear in a vegetarian's tone when they talk about their eating habits... whether it's actually there or not. This puts them instantly on the defensive, and sets an adversarial edge to the discussion that easily evolves into heatedness.






[*] We don't call human plant-eaters "herbivores", we call them "vegetarians." In the same vein, we should call human omnivores "panterians," IMHO.

 

[bignickel]

Did you know Hitler was a vegetarian?

A rather odd sort of vegetarian who ate sausages all the time.

Tokyo report: the house inspector says I have to fix the morter of my chimney, crack in the basement, and paint the porch windows and facia of my house before I leave. In January. Good thing that the rental people mentioned that I needed a house inspection months ago, when it was actually warm outside. Ah, that's right. They didn't. Good news: interwhao is saving me a room; time to wire over 10000 yen tomorrow.

 

[Miggins]

I'm surprised that you haven't seen it, as well. I brought it up a couple of pages back, and then a couple of other people expressed their surprise that no one had brought it up, and then you did. Does no one actually read these threads?

Cheers,
Rat.

Sorry Rat- my fault- I am very lazy and couldn`t be bothered to read every single post, I promise to do so in the future.
Well done for being the first to mention the H word though!

 

[Z]

Miggins, you silly lump -

I'M A FAT VEGETARIAN!

It's not what you eat, as much as it's how MUCH you eat. The hole up HERE is bigger than that hole down THERE...

Simple logic, really.

 

[cajela]

So nothing. You don`t get vegetarians very often waving a tofu burger under your nose going `COME ON, HAVE SOME OF THIS!` though, do you?

I have indeed had that experience.

And no, I`ve never seen a fat vegetarian. have you got a picture of one?

Oh, I can help there. Come on, are you really serious? I know several, err, shall we say, chunky vegetarians. I was a vegetarian for about 2 years as a broke college student, and with all the cheese & nuts I gained about 10kg.

I`m surprised the old `Hitler was a vegetarian` argument hasn`t surfaced yet, as if all veggies were repressed Nazis bent upon world domination.

It did, way back. It's mostly useful as a comeback against those people who claim that being a vegetarian makes one morally superior. And they very definitely exist, and give the regular normal sane vegetarians a bad name.

 

[Miggins]

Fair enough. Come on lets see some pictures anyway, I`m pervy like that.

 

[epepke]

The only things that get close are intestines (Liver/Lungs/Spleen). Flesh (Steaks, chicken wings, etc) isn't rich in iron at all.

If there's even the chance that a particular diet makes one think that a liver is an intestine, I'm not touching it.

I'll stick to my liver pudding (which has a lot of spleen in it), thank you very much.

 

[Valmorian]

So nothing. You don`t get vegetarians very often waving a tofu burger under your nose going `COME ON, HAVE SOME OF THIS!` though, do you?

I've had vegetarians call me a "cruel murderer" when I eat meat. That's pretty annoying too.

And no, I`ve never seen a fat vegetarian. have you got a picture of one? I`m surprised the old `Hitler was a vegetarian` argument hasn`t surfaced yet, as if all veggies were repressed Nazis bent upon world domination.

The guy who sat in the cube next to me was over 300lbs and a vegetarian. They ARE out there.

 

[Jorghnassen]

I can't find evidence of that, especially in a balanced diet that includes adequate calcium.

I've seen Americans up close at the casino in Niagara Falls, and I can tell you they sure eat too much of something (though I can't say protein in particular), if not everything. So I do believe the original statement by luchog, that Americans in general eat too much protein (one might argue the many times the required amount part), is not an extraordinary claim, as (in the very biased sample I observed over 5 years ago) they don't appear to have balanced diets...

And shame on you for not drinking milk. What else can you drink when eating cookies?

 

[Miggins]

I've seen Americans up close at the casino in Niagara Falls, and I can tell you they sure eat too much of something (though I can't say protein in particular), if not everything. So I do believe the original statement by luchog, that Americans in general eat too much protein (one might argue the many times the required amount part), is not an extraordinary claim, as (in the very biased sample I observed over 5 years ago) they don't appear to have balanced diets...

And shame on you for not drinking milk. What else can you drink when eating cookies?

The thing about Americans is that they seem to be huge all over, I`m quite tall, for a woman, but they are nephilim like in their proportions. Not all Americans, obviously. There is another type that is very skinny and nervy, like Woody Allen. Don`t think I`m anti American though, not by any means- they can be quite endearing sometimes with their eager faces and their boundless energy- like a big excitable golden labrador puppy.
Anyway, they must be eating something different, weather in quality or quantity I`m not sure. Or perhaps it is beacause they have got more space- you know, in the same way goldfish tend to grow according to the size of their bowl. Now I think about it, perhaps that`s why their voices are so very loud? SOME, I mean, SOME of them have loud voices. Must learn to stop making these sweeping generalisations.
I`ll tell you something that`s nice with cookies- Gin and Tonic.

 

[Z]

It's the fertile soil and lack of inbreeding that grows 'em big. In Kentucky, Kansas, and the Carolinas, it HAS to be the soil.

 

[ysabella]

The Dutch tend to be tall, too. I think it's so they can have their heads above water if the dikes fail.

 

[epepke]

The Dutch tend to be tall, too. I think it's so they can have their heads above water if the dikes fail.

I think you're right. It's like one of the five Chinese Brothers. On the other hand, they knock over easily.

 

[Miggins]

I think you're right. It's like one of the five Chinese Brothers. On the other hand, they knock over easily.

Americans have a lower centre of gravity however, like weebles, they wobble but they don`t fall down.