Mike Pence Aiming at 2024?

[The Don]

But the thing about swing states is that they have an electorate that can go either Democrat or Republican. A far-right politician will be less enticing to moderate voters in those states (even if they don't have the surname 'Trump') and he doesn't have the charisma to hold on to all the MAGAchuds.

If lacks charisma and 50,000 people you refer to as MAGAchuds don't turn out, he'll still be ahead of the game if 60,000 people who were incensed at President Trump decide that four years of President Biden has been satisfactory so they cannot be bothered to turn out and vote this time.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Mike Pence will run in 2024 and win, with the full backing of the Deep State, now that he has been injected with Bill Gates' mind-control microchips.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

I think he was a bone tossed to the Evangelical wing. But I don't think even the Republicans are majority religious loony are they?
What am I talking about? They won't care.

Care to define what you mean by "religious loony"? I would think that by definitions most on this board would use the Republican party is not just majority religious loony but ranges from decisively to overwhelmingly religious loony depending on what issue(s) you consider to be definitive.

Per the link below, belief in Young Earth Creationism is the majority view among Republicans but minority view among Democrats and independents. And that is even before considering what portion of the "Evolved, but God guided" fraction have a "loony" idea of what that means.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/108226/republicans-democrats-differ-creationism.aspx

 

[Segnosaur]

I think he was a bone tossed to the Evangelical wing. But I don't think even the Republicans are majority religious loony are they?

Care to define what you mean by "religious loony"? I would think that by definitions most on this board would use the Republican party is not just majority religious loony but ranges from decisively to overwhelmingly religious loony depending on what issue(s) you consider to be definitive.

Defining what a "religious looney" is is probably something that doesn't have an easy answer. It is largely a continuum, and different people are going to have different places they do their cut-off.

But I think that regardless of where you draw the cutoff, Pence is well positioned on the "looney" side of the dividing line.

 

[The Atheist]

Pence has about as much charisma as my toenail clippings.

Is charisma that much of a deal? Dubbya wasn't all that big on the charismatic stakes, and Trump certainly doesn't have any; he has a made-for-TV authority.

Mike Pence will never get the nomination. He is going to preside over the the counting of the votes in the electoral college. He he bangs the gavel, he will have sealed his fate. The Trump wing of the Party will never forgive him for that. This is of course completely irrational. It is what the stupid man-children and self-loathing women who support Trump will do. Their kind aren't good at thinking things through.

They'll have forgotten all about after their third shot of oxy.

 

[Segnosaur]

Is charisma that much of a deal?

I'd say charisma has SOME importance. Impossible to quantify though. And its not the only factor involved... things like policy, which party they belong to, are they an incumbent, etc. all factor in. On average, you're better to have it than not.

Dubbya wasn't all that big on the charismatic stakes

The Shrub might not have been on Obama's or Bill Clinton's level, but he had a certain... "folksy-ness" that might have substituted for charisma.

Plus, in his first election he was up against Al Gore.... even if you think Bush was lacking in charisma, Gore wasn't any better.

and Trump certainly doesn't have any; he has a made-for-TV authority.

I call it "con-artist charisma". He is able to connect to his audience of MAGAchuds.

 

[Stacyhs]

Is charisma that much of a deal? Dubbya wasn't all that big on the charismatic stakes, and Trump certainly doesn't have any; he has a made-for-TV authority.

Yes, charisma plays a large part in elections for a lot of people. Look at Kennedy, Reagan, Bill Clinton, and Obama. Charisma played a huge part in their popularity. Kennedy overcame his Catholicism because of it. Obama came out of nowhere because he oozed it. Even the opposite parties admitted Reagan and Bill Clinton had it. Likeability comes a close second. Dubya may not have had charisma but he had likeability. He was the guy Republicans wanted to sit down with and have a beer; they related to him. As for Trump not having any charisma, that's only partly true: He doesn't have it for those of us who see through him and see him for what he is, but he has it in spades for the idiots who don't. If you don't think so, just google "Trump charisma" and look at the results.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

Defining what a "religious looney" is is probably something that doesn't have an easy answer. It is largely a continuum, and different people are going to have different places they do their cut-off.

But I think that regardless of where you draw the cutoff, Pence is well positioned on the "looney" side of the dividing line.

OK. So tell me why you decided he's on the loony side of the cutoff. And then we can compare him to the rest of his party and the population at large.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Mike Pence will disappear from view completely by February next year. He will be as remembered as Grover Cleveland's veep, i.e. "Who??"

 

[Segnosaur]

OK. So tell me why you decided he's on the loony side of the cutoff. And then we can compare him to the rest of his party and the population at large.

On Gay rights...

His attempts to push "pray away the gay" and his fight against same sex marriage. put him on the far-right of both American society, and even a lot of republicans.

Right now, Same sex marriage is approved of by 61% of Americans. And while a minority of Republicans as a whole favor same-sex marriage, those who describe themselves as moderate republicans favor same sex marriage.

See: Pew research
Based on polling in 2019, a majority of Americans (61%) support same-sex marriage, while 31% oppose it.... Fewer conservative Republicans and Republican leaners (36%) support same-sex marriage than moderate and liberal Republicans (59%).

On Abortion:

From: Newsweek
Pence said he hoped Roe v. Wade would end up on "the ash heap of history" and repeated his views in 2018...

From: Fortune
Among American voters, 71% expressed support while only 23% thought the decision should be reversed. More surprising, however, is that 52% of Republican voters polled expressed support for Roe v. Wade, a result at odds with policies put into place by GOP officials. Thirty-nine percent of Republicans polled opposed the landmark legal decision.

 

[CORed]

I think he was a bone tossed to the Evangelical wing. But I don't think even the Republicans are majority religious loony are they?

What am I talking about? They won't care.

I think they are majority loony, and religious loony is a significant component of that, but probably not majority religious loony.

 

[CORed]

Mike Pence will disappear from view completely by February next year. He will be as remembered as Grover Cleveland's veep, i.e. "Who??"

I wouldn't be surprised to see Pence make a primary run in 2024, but I would be surprised if he got the nomination.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

On Gay rights...

His attempts to push "pray away the gay" and his fight against same sex marriage. put him on the far-right of both American society, and even a lot of republicans.

Right now, Same sex marriage is approved of by 61% of Americans. And while a minority of Republicans as a whole favor same-sex marriage, those who describe themselves as moderate republicans favor same sex marriage.

See: Pew research
Based on polling in 2019, a majority of Americans (61%) support same-sex marriage, while 31% oppose it.... Fewer conservative Republicans and Republican leaners (36%) support same-sex marriage than moderate and liberal Republicans (59%).

On Abortion:

From: Newsweek
Pence said he hoped Roe v. Wade would end up on "the ash heap of history" and repeated his views in 2018...

From: Fortune
Among American voters, 71% expressed support while only 23% thought the decision should be reversed. More surprising, however, is that 52% of Republican voters polled expressed support for Roe v. Wade, a result at odds with policies put into place by GOP officials. Thirty-nine percent of Republicans polled opposed the landmark legal decision.

Thanks. Both of those points run counter to what appears to be the majority opinion in this thread. Being a loony Christian isn't a major obstacle to winning nominations or office, though it might be an obstacle to winning the presidency.

 

[Segnosaur]

Re: Pence's position on abortion & gay rights vs. voter preferences...

Thanks.

You're welcome.

I could have also pointed out his "don't be alone with a woman" rule, but that's more of a personal example of weirdness than one of policy.

Both of those points run counter to what appears to be the majority opinion in this thread. Being a loony Christian isn't a major obstacle to winning nominations or office, though it might be an obstacle to winning the presidency.

Yes, the presidential elections are set up so that you have to appeal to the extremists to win the primaries, and then appeal to the moderates to win the final election. Pence may be able to do the former, but I'm not convinced he can do the latter.

 

[The Atheist]

Being a loony Christian isn't a major obstacle to winning nominations or office, though it might be an obstacle to winning the presidency.

Much less of an obstacle than being an atheist.

 

[Trebuchet]

Pence has about as much charisma as my toenail clippings.

On a par with Hillary Clinton, then.

There’s not 80 million Evangelicals in the US and Pence doesn’t have any appeal to anyone else

There are a lot of non-Evangelicals who will vote GOP regardless.

The "Never-Trumpers" and so-called "moderate Republicans" may consider Mike Pence to be someone they can vote for.

IMO Mike Pence stands a decent chance of being elected if he is selected as the GOP Presidential candidate in 2024. IMO it largely depends on how much excitement the Democratic Party candidate can generate because Mike Pence wouldn't generate as much animosity as President Trump.

But Evangelicals will vote GOP regardless. Their leaders will proclaim whoever the party nominates as the Chosen of God and the faithful will believe it. Hell, they even made it work for Donald Trump.
So I dunno about Pence's chances. He'll have some name recognition, but has been pretty much a nonentity through his term as Veep.

 

[The Atheist]

He'll have some name recognition, but has been pretty much a nonentity through his term as Veep.

Aren't they all, though?

I've been watching US politics for several decades and I'm hard-pressed to think of any examples of VPs doing anything of any value ever.

 

[TragicMonkey]

If Pence were president would he have his wife's title changed so she could be First Mother?

 

[angrysoba]

Aren't they all, though?

I've been watching US politics for several decades and I'm hard-pressed to think of any examples of VPs doing anything of any value ever.

Well, Dick Cheney was often considered to be the real power in the Bush administration.

 

[slyjoe]

Aren't they all, though?

I've been watching US politics for several decades and I'm hard-pressed to think of any examples of VPs doing anything of any value ever.

I can think of LBJ (re: NASA) being pretty significant, Cheney as mentioned, but that's about it.