The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread

[Matthew Best]

But the chart below shows, or seems to show, despite increased testing in Michigan the percentage of those infected has remained largely the same.

It doesn't really show a great deal of increased testing, though. Looks like only slightly more testing towards the end there. But it's not a very good graph for telling us how much more testing there's been, as it shows total cumulative tests rather than number of daily tests, which would be much better.

 

[Ulf Nereng]

Surely you would expect the percentage of people who test positive to remain mostly the same?

Only if you keep the testing criteria exactly the same even if you now are able to do more tests. When your capacity increases, however, you will start to widen those criteria to include people who are less likely to be positive.

 

[newyorkguy]

My point is about the protests in Michigan at the state house. That it does seem too soon for Michigan to end the lockdown. That the mortality rate for people confirmed to have coronavirus in Michigan is about double what it is in neighboring states for people confirmed to have coronavirus. I don't understand why five different people are trying to knock this down. (Actually, I do understand. It's the internet! )

What's the latest? The chart I posted does not show increased testing. It does, though. It shows on April 6th about 65,000 people had been tested in Michigan. Ten days later it shows about 105,000 had been tested. An increase of forty thousand people in ten days, an average of 4,000 per day. On April 26th it shows about 170,000 have been tested, an increase of about sixty-five thousand in ten days or 6,500 per day. That's better than a 50% increase.

 

[Meadmaker]

My point is about the protests in Michigan at the state house. That it does seem too soon for Michigan to end the lockdown. That the mortality rate for people confirmed to have coronavirus in Michigan is about double what it is in neighboring states for people confirmed to have coronavirus. I don't understand why five different people are trying to knock this down. (Actually, I do understand. It's the internet! )

What's the latest? The chart I posted does not show increased testing. It does, though. It shows on April 6th about 65,000 people had been tested in Michigan. Ten days later it shows about 105,000 had been tested. An increase of forty thousand people in ten days, an average of 4,000 per day. On April 26th it shows about 170,000 have been tested, an increase of about sixty-five thousand in ten days or 6,500 per day. That's better than a 50% increase.

There is another possibility for why our death rate in Michigan is higher than neighboring states. Deaths tend to lag behind confirmed cases. We were fairly late to report our very first case, but once it got rolling, it really got rolling. For a while we were number 2 behind only New York (or...maybe number 3, ...New Jersey as well. I tend to lump New Jersey in with New York in my head, because I'm guessing the majority of Jersey cases were suburban New York. Anyway, I digress. We had a lot of cases.) Our case rate actually peaked a couple of weeks ago, at around 1500 per day. This week, it's around 1,000, with some days significantly lower.

Meanwhile, four other states have passed us in confirmed cases since then, so they should also soon start passing us in deaths. That's if the theory holds. Of course, there are so many different variables involved that it will take years to actually sort this all out. It may be that a huge factor in the high death rate is that most of the cases were in Detroit. The City of Detroit is a huge mass of poor people. (Also mostly black, if that has anything to do with it. I know that the virus has hit African-Americans especially hard, but I'm assuming that's a poverty thing rather than a genetic predisposition.) I'm guessing that poor people are more likely to get the virus, and more likely to die if they get the virus, so there's a double whammy in the statistics. It just spread very fast in Detroit.

I doubt that it is "more deadly" in the sense of the virus itself being a different, more deadly, strain than the strain more common in Ohio.

But, to your point, there are still a whole bunch of people getting sick here in Michigan, and a whole bunch of people dying. It doesn't seem like a good time to be going back to work.

I'll bet that most of the protestors live outside the Detroit metro area. Once you get away from the big city, Michigan gets pretty conservative, with a large amount of crazy sprinkled in. They love their guns.

 

[newyorkguy]

From Business Insider:

Trump calls protesters who carried guns into the Michigan Capitol 'very good people' and says the governor should 'make a deal' with them..."The Governor of Michigan should give a little, and put out the fire," Trump wrote. "These are very good people, but they are angry. They want their lives back again, safely! See them, talk to them, make a deal."

It is unclear what kind of a deal Trump was referring to. While Whitmer extended the order, telling citizens to stay home and keeping nonessential businesses closed, she also relaxed some of the restrictions in the original order. Michigan, one of the states hit hardest by the COVID-19 pandemic, is not close to meeting the Trump administration's own guidelines for reopening economies and lifting stay-at-home orders, one of which is experiencing 14 days of declining positive cases. Link

See them? Talk to them? Make a deal? Who does trump think they represent, a few thousand whackjobs like him? Even for donnie this is bizarre.

Some of the very good people lined up by the governor's office yesterday inside the state capital.

 

[Lurch]

Wasn't it Mao who quipped that all power flows from the barrel of a gun?

 

[Stacyhs]

Well, exterminating Jews was lawful (if hidden behind euphemisms) in Third Reich, so...

So was 'euthanizing' children with any kind of genetic or mental defect. It was a gov't mandated policy.

 

[The Atheist]

How is it the friggin Fannie Mae gets to decide if I have to pay my mortgage but renters get to simply stiff the landlord for who knows how many months?

Because you live in USA.

Tough luck.

And rich white men rule.

Another thing they have in common with America.

 

[Stacyhs]

From Business Insider:


See them? Talk to them? Make a deal? Who does trump think they represent, a few thousand whackjobs like him? Even for donnie this is bizarre.

Some of the very good people lined up by the governor's office yesterday inside the state capital.

Protesting is a right. I have no problem with that. But bringing guns, rifles, and assault style rifles is not protesting. That is threatening. Why the hell do they think they have to bring guns for otherwise than to threaten? That tells me the mentality of these people. "Very good people", my fat patootie. They're thugs.

 

[William Parcher]

Is it legal to have a gun on government property in Michigan?

ETA: Maybe the guys that actually went inside the capitol building didn't have guns. I don't know.

 

[Babbylonian]

Protesting is a right. I have no problem with that. But bringing guns, rifles, and assault style rifles is not protesting. That is threatening. Why the hell do they think they have to bring guns for otherwise than to threaten? That tells me the mentality of these people. "Very good people", my fat patootie. They're thugs.

Personally, I'd classify them as terrorists. The obvious result of carrying these guns is causing people to fear that they'll be used to shoot someone. Doing so in order to advance a political cause is terrorism. If Michigan's laws allow this, then those laws require change.

 

[a_unique_person]

Is it legal to have a gun on government property in Michigan?

ETA: Maybe the guys that actually went inside the capitol building didn't have guns. I don't know.

We'll see.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Personally, I'd classify them as terrorists. The obvious result of carrying these guns is causing people to fear that they'll be used to shoot someone. Doing so in order to advance a political cause is terrorism. If Michigan's laws allow this, then those laws require change.

Black or brown people doing this would not be tolerated.

 

[newyorkguy]

It is legal to have a gun in a Michigan state building so long as it is 'open carry,' and not concealed.

As Michigan State Police explained to a number of media outlets, the protesters were well within their rights to carry their firearms inside the building. It's legal in Michigan to carry a firearm in public "as long as the person is carrying the firearm with lawful intent and the firearm is not concealed."

While the protests raged on around them, the lawmakers in the building appeared uncomfortable and even frightened by the scene. State Sen. Dayna Polehanki tweeted that a number of her colleagues wore bulletproof vests to the session. Link

The problem is, what explanation can the protesters give for bringing rifles with them? For dressing in military gear? Carrying placards with things like, "The government is trying to enslave us" and "Tyrants get the rope." Chanting "Lock her up." The worst part of all is, the president not only chose to praise them but to encourage them. That is shameful. Disgraceful. trump -- as a protest I will no longer capitalize his name -- is degrading this nation every day he remains in office. It's going to be a long recovery.

 

[BobTheCoward]

It is legal to have a gun in a Michigan state building so long as it is 'open carry,' and not concealed.


The problem is, what explanation can the protesters give for bringing rifles with them? For dressing in military gear? Carrying placards with things like, "The government is trying to enslave us" and "Tyrants get the rope." Chanting "Lock her up." The worst part of all is, the president not only chose to praise them but to encourage them. That is shameful. Disgraceful. trump -- as a protest I will no longer capitalize his name -- is degrading this nation every day he remains in office. It's going to be a long recovery.

They are proving that unlike the people who don't show up, they embody the true spirit of the people who helped in the struggle for liberty.

That is my interpretation.

 

[crescent]

It is legal to have a gun in a Michigan state building so long as it is 'open carry,' and not concealed.

As I recall, all visitors to the building have to go through metal detectors. Except for those openly carrying guns - they go around the metal detectors.

(I am not making that up.)

 

[I Am The Scum]

They are proving that unlike the people who don't show up, they embody the true spirit of the people who helped in the struggle for liberty.

That is my interpretation.

No it's not

 

[BobTheCoward]

No it's not

Yes, it is. I wrote it, it is an interpretation, it is my interpretation. Just as if I wrote a book, it is my book.

 

[newyorkguy]

...I'll bet that most of the protestors live outside the Detroit metro area. Once you get away from the big city, Michigan gets pretty conservative, with a large amount of crazy sprinkled in. They love their guns.

A friend who once worked in the rail freight industry in Michigan once told me: "Once you get outside southeast Michigan, you're in Alabama!"

 

[Stacyhs]

They are proving that unlike the people who don't show up, they embody the true spirit of the people who helped in the struggle for liberty.

That is my interpretation.