Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

[Gamolon]

No they said help was coming, but they did not say I was going to win the lottery until one hour before the draw.

The point was these "spirits" told you monetary help was coming prior to the lottery, aided you in picking numbers prior to the lottery, and then told you an hour before that you won.

You KNEW prior to the lottery you would win. The spirits told and guided you.

 

[Gamolon]

No they said help was coming, but they did not say I was going to win the lottery until one hour before the draw.

They told you monetary help was coming. They then guided your hands to pick the numbers. They then told you that you won on hour before the lottery happened.

You KNEW you were going to win because the spirits told you so.

 

[Scorpion]

It's the memory of hard experience that forces change. If someone contemplates doing something and remembers that there were painful consequences the last time he did it, then he is more likely to refrain from doing it. If he can't remember having previously done it, or the consequences, then each trial is de novo. That's pointless if the goal is progression.

Suffering ourselves quite likely makes us more aware of other peoples experiences. We may develop qualities like compassion, and empathy where we had none before.

 

[Gamolon]

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Please explain to me why a 3 year old child is raped multiple times by soldiers and then killed. The following reasons are the reasons you have given for suffering, which is it?

Is it the karma angels that decided it was right for the 3 year old to be raped and killed so the spirit can evolve.

See Scorpion's quote below:

Believe it or not the spirit world say that there are another species of beings we call angels that never incarnate and some of them are angels of karma.
They have the final say in our evolution, and decide what experiences we need for our soul to progress. They are not concerned if that experience is harsh as they know it will all be for the ultimate good.

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Is it the spirit of the child that decided it needed to "evolve" and it required the 3 year old child to be raped and killed?

See Scorpion's quote below:

Spirits have the choice to incarnate or not, but if they have not achieved a state of grace they eventually realize the only was to spiritually evolve is to reincarnate. They do not get to choose the circumstances of the future life, because that is decided by the angels of karma.

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Is it a test the karma angels have set up for the soldiers' spirits to see if they will do something so terrible?

See Scorpion's quote below:

Believe it or not the spirit world say that there are another species of beings we call angels that never incarnate and some of them are angels of karma.
They have the final say in our evolution, and decide what experiences we need for our soul to progress. They are not concerned if that experience is harsh as they know it will all be for the ultimate good.

--------

According to Scorpion, the first reason is the only option. The second reason cannot be it because the spirits do not choose. The Angels do it for them.

The third reason cannot be it because the soldiers do not have free will to choose as they must perform the actions as foreseen by the Angels of Karma within the incarnation the Angels chose for said soldiers.

 

[Gamolon]

The soul might not be able to bear having knowledge of past lives, knowing we had done terrible things might drive us mad. It is hard experience that forces changes in the soul.

I guess knowing about only one past life and doing/experiencing terrible things wouldn't eh? I suppose Hitler's spirit was thrilled with what he had done in his past life.

 

[JayUtah]

Suffering ourselves quite likely makes us more aware of other peoples experiences. We may develop qualities like compassion, and empathy where we had none before.

You keep missing the point. The modality of empathy is irrelevant if the memory of it is reset for each incarnation. It completely defeats the point of progressing via a sequence of incarnations. Each incarnation is a de novo trial.

 

[Scorpion]

I guess knowing about only one past life and doing/experiencing terrible things wouldn't eh? I suppose Hitler's spirit was thrilled with what he had done in his past life.

I expect Hitler had a rude awakening after his death. He probably found himself in a dark place with all the time it takes for him to realize the consequences of what he did. That would become his personal hell and the only way out of it is to reincarnate and face whatever future lives throw at him.

 

[Scorpion]

You keep missing the point. The modality of empathy is irrelevant if the memory of it is reset for each incarnation. It completely defeats the point of progressing via a sequence of incarnations. Each incarnation is a de novo trial.

We carry qualities that the soul develops through experience with us into future lives as latent characteristics, not as memories.

 

[Gamolon]

I expect Hitler had a rude awakening after his death. He probably found himself in a dark place with all the time it takes for him to realize the consequences of what he did.

You mean when the Angels of Karma forced him into an incarnation that was foreseen to do terrible things to other spirits who needed those terrible things done to them because they themselves were evil and needed to suffer.

Right Scorpion?

 

[JayUtah]

I cannot speak for the angels decisions. I just think they know what they are doing.

Why would you think that if you can't tell us how they operate? That's a detrimental assurance.

You're the one trying to convince people that these angels exist and that they have the powers you ascribe to them to somehow work out everything out for the greater good. The fact that you get so easily stumped by the shallowest hypotheticals convinces us instead that you're just making all this up as you go. You're failing in this debate not because your critics are so much more talented at debate than you are, but because you literally have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[JayUtah]

We carry qualities that the soul develops through experience with us into future lives as latent characteristics...

Give three examples of such "latent characteristics" and explain why each cannot be considered some kind of memory.

 

[Gamolon]

That would become his personal hell and the only way out of it is to reincarnate and face whatever future lives throw at him.

In what way was that his personal hell? Are you telling me that he was upset at what he did and would probably face terrible consequences in future lives to pay for it all?

 

[Gamolon]

I expect Hitler had a rude awakening after his death. He probably found himself in a dark place with all the time it takes for him to realize the consequences of what he did.

The only reason a spirit was put into Hitler's incarnation by the Angels of Karma was so that Hitler's incarnation could cause suffering among all those other evil spirits that needed it?

I mean someone had to do it right?

 

[Pope130]

The only reason a spirit was put into Hitler's incarnation by the Angels of Karma was so that Hitler's incarnation could cause suffering among all those other evil spirits that needed it?

I mean someone had to do it right?

This seems to be edging into the "Saint Judas" defense. He was carrying out god's plan.

 

[Scorpion]

"... Earlier this year, a Human Rights Watch report alleged Rohingya women and girls as young as 13 had been raped and sexually assaulted by soldiers. ..."

You keep talking about a girl of three being raped by soldiers, but give no evidence. The above quote by you says it was thirteen year olds that were raped. But it seems that was not horrible enough sounding for you, so you dropped the age to three years old.

 

[Scorpion]

In what way was that his personal hell? Are you telling me that he was upset at what he did and would probably face terrible consequences in future lives to pay for it all?

If I am right and we have to account for every action we make then Hitler's karma must be an unclimbable mountain ahead of him. If and when he realized this he would be in a hell of his own design. The only way out is to face whatever future incarnations will subject him to.
I would not want to be in his shoes.

 

[Scorpion]

Give three examples of such "latent characteristics" and explain why each cannot be considered some kind of memory.

I don't know about three things, but the spirit guide of Ursula Roberts said in a trance lecture that Mozart was a musician in nine incarnations before he was born as the prodigy.

 

[JayUtah]

I don't know about three things...

You can't name three criteria for spiritual progression in your religion? That's astoundingly incompetent.

...but the spirit guide of Ursula Roberts...

Why would you dare present such nonsensical hearsay as evidence to skeptics? You can't even prove she was a real medium. Why should we pay it the slightest attention?

...Mozart was a musician in nine incarnations before he was born as the prodigy.

How is that not a function of remembering skills learned in past lives? I'm a musician. Your story makes me laugh.

 

[wasapi]

Scorpion, at least you said "if I'm right", which tells me you have doubts, that it shows you question your own beliefs to some degree. So, I disagree with you. If I'm right . . .

Again, it seems as if you have been consumed by your beliefs, have found something that you are comfortable with, that fit as answers for questions you have apparently obsessed with for a long time.

Your obsession with this is obviously something in your psychological background, but I am not here to analyze you. And, we all should abide by 'do no harm'. But as I started to say, I like it that you are questioning. You can learn a lot here.

 

[Darat]

How would I know the answers to all that.

Because you have several times given all those reasons...