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The Trump Presidency: Sweet/Sweat 16

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theprestige said:
Except that President Trump regularly faces legal challenges to his actions, complete with judicial review and quite often a check on his power.

In fact Trump has been pretty good about accepting court rulings against the administration, and going back to re-work things to comply with the rulings of the courts.
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True if we are talking about questions around administrative policy. Not true if we are discussing criminal investigation of his individual actions.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump Tweets

Oh no, really big political news, perhaps the biggest story in years! Part time Mayor of New York City, @BilldeBlasio, who was polling at a solid ZERO but had tremendous room for growth, has shocking dropped out of the Presidential race. NYC is devastated, he’s coming home!

The Radical Left Democrats and their Fake News Media partners, headed up again by Little Adam Schiff, and batting Zero for 21 against me, are at it again! They think I may have had a “dicey” conversation with a certain foreign leader based on a “highly partisan” whistleblowers....

....statement. Strange that with so many other people hearing or knowing of the perfectly fine and respectful conversation, that they would not have also come forward. Do you know the reason why they did not? Because there was nothing said wrong, it was pitch perfect!
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He's running out of names to call people so he's recycling them.
 
Horatius said:
Okay, so is this just standard Trump BS, or did someone actually tell him exactly who made the complaint, and exactly what they were complaining about?

Both are bad, but the second is far worse, I think, because avoiding retribution by powerful malefactors is exactly why we have whistleblower protection laws. If Trump has any of this information, then someone in his employ has just **** all over that law, too.
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He must know what conversation aka the complaint is about unless he made corrupt promises to more than one leader.


So is this Ukrainian/Biden thing the same thing or something else? Maybe the whistle was blown but the information is out there anyway?
 
uke2se said:
....

I guess the question is really "what if the President and his entire party simply stops worrying about following the law?" What's the remedy?
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Pretty sure that ship has sailed. There is no remedy and tRump knows it.

But in some of these cases, like the tax returns and Deutsche Bank records, other people have possession of the evidence.
 
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Am I the only one that thinks the Rudy meltdown on CNN deserves its own thread? That was ******* nuts! I have never seen an interview like that before. WTF?
 
This is all also a genie that cannot be put back in the bottle.

All the political ideologies; "good/bad" (however you wish to define them), left/right, progressive/traditional, conservative/liberal have seen what kind of power can be brought to bare with only a few key people in positions of power to perfectly balance out the balance of power.

This is not information will be forgotten or ignored by anybody. The very idea that even the noblest and purest of politicians will not be at least a little influenced by this is naive.

Right now there is a least a tiny little molecule of envy in every politician's brain as to how Trump has completed such a powergrab. Don't for second think there isn't.
 
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Safe-Keeper said:
Just did a search. Wow. That was Trump-level rambling.
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It's fun watching Trump's underling try and fail to do Trump's "reality denial" routine.

Trump gives zero *****. He'll say one thing, then say the other, and just literally roll with it without an ounce of shame or self reflection.

Everyone else trips themselves up being that wrong and inconsistent.
 
JoeMorgue said:
This is all also a genie that cannot be put back in the bottle.

All the political ideologies; "good/bad" (however you wish to define them), left/right, progressive/traditional, conservative/liberal have seen what kind of power can be brought to bare with only a few key people in positions of power to perfectly balance out the balance of power.

This is not information will be forgotten or ignored by anybody. The very idea that even the noblest and purest of politicians will not be at least a little influenced by this is naive.

Right now there is a least a tiny little molecule of envy in every politician's brain as to how Trump has completed such a powergrab. Don't for second think there isn't.
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That would be a great question for the next primary debate: "what permanent limits to executive power would you put in place on your first day in office?"
 
Beelzebuddy said:
That would be a great question for the next primary debate: "what permanent limits to executive power would you put in place on your first day in office?"
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I would be even more direct and to the point.

"What do you think that you, acting as Chief Executive, should not be able to do? Actual real world examples, not vague truisms."
 
JoeMorgue said:
Oh certainly agree with you in the strongest possible terms there, hence my constant annoyance with the "Well Trump can't do that!" arguments I hear, all of which can be disproven via the "Trump can do anything he wants until someone stops him" experiment of the last 3 years.
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I wonder if the Dems in the House don't really get this, or if they do and are just doing what ineffectual things that they can and hoping against hope something sticks.
 
Paul2 said:
I wonder if the Dems in the House don't really get this, or if they do and are just doing what ineffectual things that they can and hoping against hope something sticks.
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I've long described the Dems as someone playing a really, really good game of Chess where they are thinking 3 steps ahead and making all the right moves... against someone who is playing "I flip the board over."
 
Paul2 said:
I wonder if the Dems in the House don't really get this, or if they do and are just doing what ineffectual things that they can and hoping against hope something sticks.
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I think the latter. They're surely aware that they could have subpoenaed trump's tax returns on day 1, but they'd have been told to go to hell, so they're sitting on their hands hoping it'll cone around to them via Deutsche bank.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
That would be a great question for the next primary debate: "what permanent limits to executive power would you put in place on your first day in office?"
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Of course, the problem is that sometimes the president needs wide-ranging powers.

The next Democratic president will need to act quickly to clean up Trump's mess... that means re-instating many environmental and financial regulations, ending the fake state of emergency, etc. If you put too many restrictions in place right away, those needed fixes may be delayed.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
I wonder if the Dems in the House don't really get this, or if they do and are just doing what ineffectual things that they can and hoping against hope something sticks.
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I think the latter. They're surely aware that they could have subpoenaed trump's tax returns on day 1, but they'd have been told to go to hell, so they're sitting on their hands hoping it'll cone around to them via Deutsche bank.
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Actually the House Ways and Means committee requested Trump's tax returns from the IRS back in April 2019, only a few months after the Democrats took the majority in the House. Of course, the Trump administration blocked the request, so the committee is suing (which means a delay as things work through the courts).

The law is pretty clear: Congress can request anyone's tax returns. Mnuchin is likely breaking the law by ignoring the request.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_returns_of_Donald_Trump#Formal_congressional_request_to_IRS

So no, the House didn't simply sit on its hands waiting for the Tax returns to fall into their laps via Deutche bank. They are taking available legal channels. (Unless the committee members stage a break-in at the IRS to retrieve them, I'm not really sure what else can be done.)
 
uke2se said:
I don't really buy that a system that fails to account for someone gaining power and then not following the rules is a good system. Rule of law is based on enforcement of said laws. If nobody can enforce law, it doesn't exist. I simplified the problem with the US system before. The problem runs much deeper and has to do with political appointments and a mixing of the three branches of government that are supposed to be separate.
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But this would be true of any system you could create. No matter how fancy or elaborate, no matter how many competing branches you have, if enough of them are taken over by people who won't act to curtail abuses, the system will fail.

Remember, the problem here is not Trump alone. If enough Senators stood up and said "Enough is enough!", he'd be out on his ass tomorrow. They won't do that though.




theprestige said:
Except that President Trump regularly faces legal challenges to his actions, complete with judicial review and quite often a check on his power.

In fact Trump has been pretty good about accepting court rulings against the administration, and going back to re-work things to comply with the rulings of the courts.
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Now you're just arguing with the hypothetical. Sure, it hasn't happened yet, but if did, what would happen? Feel free to ignore the hypothetical, but then you're having a different conversation.


Congress can't actually give lawful orders to agents of the Executive branch. Separation of powers, remember?
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Well, that's an issue I'm willing to settle on the battlefield, since by this point we'd be on the battlefield anyways.


Skeptic Ginger said:
He must know what conversation aka the complaint is about unless he made corrupt promises to more than one leader.


So is this Ukrainian/Biden thing the same thing or something else? Maybe the whistle was blown but the information is out there anyway?
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Yeah, I'll happily take the "over" when betting on how many corrupt promises Trump has made.
 
chrispy said:
Am I the only one that thinks the Rudy meltdown on CNN deserves its own thread? That was ******* nuts! I have never seen an interview like that before. WTF?
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I found it amazing that CNN considered it so valuable to show that they didn't have a commercial break for almost 30 minutes. It was almost a refreshing break from all the drug and insurance ads.
 
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