Sure. You knew that this particular word was far more offensive than any other racist word since well before 2014.
Goalpost shift. It has been well known as a racist insult. Whether it is "The Worst Racist Insult (TM Psionl0)" is irrelevant
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What we mean when we talk about racism
- Thread starter Minoosh
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- racism racism issues
Goalpost shift. It has been well known as a racist insult. Whether it is "The Worst Racist Insult (TM Psionl0)" is irrelevant
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Great research. Do you think that this girl did the same research before using the word?
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
The goal posts were shifted long ago. This was supposed to be about spectators being labeled "racist" for simply booing Goodes.
That wasn't a good enough story for the "critical" thinkers here. The story had to be changed so that as well as booing, the crows were also yelling out racial insults and encouraging a 13 year old girl to do the same (even though these events were at different times).
wareyin
Penultimate Amazing
Dude, you brought up the girl yelling racial insults when you brought up this as an example! From the get go, even you knew that racial insults were part of the booing, there was no story change. There was no mention (other than from you) of encouraging this girl to yell racial insults. And tellingly, you are unable to support your claim of booing that did not include racial insults.
Your example is actually disproving theprestige's and your own claims that these fine upstanding folks yelling racial insults are being called racist merely for disagreeing with a minority.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
No, it wasn't. It was never about that, although that is what you tried to make it about when you shifted the goalposts. The racism issue only came up when that teenager called him an "ape". It was a clear, well known and well understood racist slur.
You're not fooling anyone with your bluff and bluster, least of all me and you can't tell me that this teenage girl didn't know exactly what she was saying. I lived in Australia for the two and a half years I went to the Aerospace College at Monash U, and I have been to Aussie Rules matches (it was called the VFL back then). I barracked for St Kilda, and they had a couple of indigenous players (Robbie Muir and Greg McAdam) who copped a frightful amount of racial abuse at away games, especially at the Bombers - and that included the usual array of Australian pejoratives for indigenous players such as; "boori", "fabo", "coon", "abo" and "jafa". The use of the "ape" and "monkey" pejoratives as well as monkey chants was frequent.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
It's my fault for failing to realize that readers here would be unable to see that the two incidents were separate events with no causal link.
Jesus Christ what does it matter?
For the last time "But I can show you an example of bad-counter-racism" doesn't change anything.
I don't care that you found one bowl of soup that's too hot in a world where most soup is way too cold.
For the last time "But I can show you an example of bad-counter-racism" doesn't change anything.
I don't care that you found one bowl of soup that's too hot in a world where most soup is way too cold.
wareyin
Penultimate Amazing
It's my fault for failing to realize that readers here would be unable to see that the two incidents were separate events with no causal link.
This is your claim. You have yet to substantiate it. Since it is clearly a preposterous claim, you have your work cut out to back it up.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
THINK! The booing started after the girl and the "ape" incident. What does that say about causality?
That people were booing him because he objected to racist insults, which seems a little racist.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
180o turn successfully executed.
You're the one hijacking a thread about racism demanding we talk about one anecdotal story of one person being called a racist because... hey who doesn't find themselves in the middle of an angry mob chanting racist slurs through no fault of their own every once in a while.
You're standing in the Arctic thrusting your hand into the only campfire for miles in any direction screaming about how we need to do more to prevent burns and will not talk about how anybody else is cold until we do.
Full Quote
If she learned it from the crowd, they were already using racist chants at Goodes.
If she learned the habit of chanting racial insults at minorities from her friends and family, then she knew to which minority those insults were aimed.
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The commentators tend to agree that Goodes got far more booing aimed at him after this incident, and that his calling out a racist insult was the main reason for this.
Lots of sports fans take a dislike to particular opposing team members, but if your reason is that he'd got a racist expelled from the ground, then your booing *is* supporting that racist.
It's really not a particularly subtle point I'm making.
Thermal
August Member
Here I thought you were talking about Zed. Instead of a minor character with a couple minutes of screen time, how does your comparison hold up against the main characters and the bulk of the movie?
Still not sure what you are saying. I'm not referring to black culture, or any insight of my own. I'm saying take a gander at the general culture. Look at Twitter or reddit. Any social media in fact that is not overrun with white people tut-tutting each other about checking their privilege. I'm observing that the use of the word is in transition, which is probably a good thing, IMO. I like it when ugly things lose their power.
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
Amazing what you can "observe" when you completely ignore context. Words do not exist in a vacuum, and are not used in a vacuum. Context determines connotation, and in the context of the greater culture, that word has not even begun to lose it's ugliness. It is still very much a derogatory term imbued with a great deal of power to demean and marginalize. Four centuries of history are not going to be undone in a few years, no matter how many white people cry "post-racism".
lomiller
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
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Children have been observed making in-group and out-group judgements based on color and other obvious physical traits well before they can talk. Children, however can also easily learn that other less obvious traits matter more.
The catch is that they can learn the wrong things, in particular they can mistake correlation for causation. Eg a child (or anyone really) spends a lot of time in an environment where black friends/associates are more likely to be affiliated with social issues that result in behavioral issues and poor academic performance they may end up using skin color as a basis for prejudging peoples behavior and competence. The real issue is how we deal with new data, not that we subconsciously jump to the wrong conclusion sometimes.
IMO the real racism problem in most western countries isn’t racial epithets, it’s the notion that solvable social problems are in fact some expression of “racial differences” and because of that there is no point even trying to fix the issues.
Thermal
August Member
Well...yes. Of course. Obviously. You can use m-fer casually among friends, too, but if a stranger walked up with a scowl and directed it at you, it's pretty obviously not a term of endearment.
Times move fast, though, and the terms changing use is well into decades now. Hell, Pulp Fiction is going on 25 years old IIRC. I've been seeing it used for many years, from cyberspace to my own jobsites. The change is long underway. Well, except for the white twittersphere types who endlessly lecture other whites. Know what I mean?
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lomiller
Penultimate Amazing
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Not that I condone, but I find that angry people often say things specifically because they think the person hearing will be hurt or offended. Racial epithets can seem to be particular low hanging fruit, but may just be poor judgement in an emotionally charged situation rather than a flag for racism. It could of course be both, especially when the person in question won’t accept that it’s not appropriate regardless of the situation.
Ultimately though, I’m far more concerned about people who think you can explain the economic gap between black and white Americans can be explained by “differences in intelligence”, even if these people have never used a racial epithet in their lives.
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
I know all about the white twittersphere types, who lecture other whites endlessly about how they're all liberal dupes and race-traitors for saying that racism actually exists, for denying white replacement, for "supporting" Islam in its crusade to destroy the One True Religion of Christianity and white people along with it, about how feminists are trying to turn all women into lesbians and all "true men" gay, who go on and on about how they should be allowed to say whatever they want despite a bunch of uppity n-words who keep "playing the race card" whenever they spout off, and how if all those n-words don't want to get shot by police then they should know they're place, and who whine every chance they get about how white men are the true victims in society.
Yup, I know all about the white twittersphere.
Thermal
August Member
Normally, I'd cheer the Poe, but I think you are quite serious