Flo
Illuminator
Ordinary citizens can own firearms for sports and hunting. They must be registered and you must be a club member. You're not supposed to use them for any other purpose. Of course, self-defense laws apply but you'd be in a hell of a pickle should you shoot some youth on a scooter on an unproved suspicion he was going to firebomb your shop.
Fortunately, firearms related crimes are few and far between.
Only specific professions have the right to carry arms and use them in self-protection (police, security guards, ...), as do a very small number of people who can demonstrate their security or life is menaced.
Flo
Illuminator
Naturellement. Same rules apply here. But somehow, I'd think that in the current circumstances, if the police came upon the body of a guy, lying next to his scooter with a puddle of gasoline and a broken bottle of 2002 Crozes-Hermitage with a rag sticking out of the neck lying next to him, they'd be inclined to believe the store owner when he said the guy was trying to torch his shop.
Yikes, you can't carry a gun unless there's an imminent threat?
I'd think at this point, everyone in the Paris suburbs would qualify.
Flo
Illuminator
But they're NOT new immigrants, neither are they all muslims. Of course, it arranges politicians like Sarkozy and the far right (and not a few of the far left) to equate "suburbs population" = "(illegal) immigrants" = "muslims" = "rioters": that way, they make sure nobody will point to the fact that, as you rightly pointed out, French society doesn't really give a chance to its immigrants to benefit from any of the "égalité, fraternité", and only very little of the "liberté" ...
Flo
Illuminator
Not only the children of immigrants (who are in their majority French citizens by right of being born in France), but a lot of former Parisians who have been sent to live in the suburbs when Paris was all but emptied of its poorer population in from the end of the 60es. And I know this because it is well reported in all population statistics, by social agencies, etc.
Nick Bogaerts
Muse
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2005
- Messages
- 617
BPSCG -- 'My primary question was, do French people have the right to keep guns in their houses and places of business, for self-protection?'
Yes. Though most military weapons are banned, a certain number, called fourth category weapons, can be used for self-defense, but require a license. Hunting weapons do not require a license. Most people in cities do not own firearms, and usually nor do ordinary criminals.
Yes. Though most military weapons are banned, a certain number, called fourth category weapons, can be used for self-defense, but require a license. Hunting weapons do not require a license. Most people in cities do not own firearms, and usually nor do ordinary criminals.
Seems to me if I owned a shop anywhere near Paris, I'd be out shopping for a hunting rifle right about now and making sure someone from my shop was sitting there with it in plain sight throughout the night (being careful to somehow circumvent the laws limiting the number of hours a person can work). Not looking to shoot anyone, mind you, just making sure the hoodlums decide my shop is a less tempting target than the one down the street.
A couple of months ago, someone posted a story here in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, about a guy who'd hooked up a power generator to his house when the electricity went out. A couple of punks approached him on his front porch and told him they intended to take his generator. He suggested they move on instead. Noting that he was armed, they decided to look elsewhere to satisfy their electrical power needs.
This "simmering underclass" has not been kept a "secret". It has been repeatedly discussed in French media (newspapers, TV, film) for quite a long time. I guess media from elsewhere finally paid attention, now that riots have started.
Reginald
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2002
- Messages
- 1,621
Maybe secret was the wrong word then.
Personally, I've always liked this habit that the French people have of kicking up a manure storm when they finally get fed up with something. It's not the first time that violence related to social issues has blown up in France, and knowing the French, it probably won't be last time. Maybe now the festering problems of the poor "maghrebins" and of those awful suburban ghettos will finally get some real attention!
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It' s kind of funny how internet discussions go.
Clearly the problem is a combination of youth unemployment, bigotry and cultural values that prevent integration into French society.
IMO, the biggest problem is French laws that discourage employment which exacerabate the other two- e.g. unemployed, immigrant youths act are more likely to adopt values that prevent their integration in society and excessive amount of unemployed youths are likely to increase bigotry. And also bigotry and values increase the unemployment of the immigrant youths.
However, most people insists on focussing on their pet issue instead of acknowledging the combination of problems.
BTW, I think started well (from post #13
CBL
Clearly the problem is a combination of youth unemployment, bigotry and cultural values that prevent integration into French society.
IMO, the biggest problem is French laws that discourage employment which exacerabate the other two- e.g. unemployed, immigrant youths act are more likely to adopt values that prevent their integration in society and excessive amount of unemployed youths are likely to increase bigotry. And also bigotry and values increase the unemployment of the immigrant youths.
However, most people insists on focussing on their pet issue instead of acknowledging the combination of problems.
BTW, I think started well (from post #13
but, in the face of resistance to acknowledgement of the obvious unemployment problem, I stopped looking for consensus - just like everyone else.
CBL
Indeed. Just like some people seem to have only one choice "let's riot"; I hope a few still decide to get up & go look for a job.
It' s kind of funny how internet discussions go.
Clearly the problem is a combination of youth unemployment, bigotry and cultural values that prevent integration into French society.
IMO, the biggest problem is French laws that discourage employment which exacerabate the other two- e.g. unemployed, immigrant youths act are more likely to adopt values that prevent their integration in society and excessive amount of unemployed youths are likely to increase bigotry. And also bigotry and values increase the unemployment of the immigrant youths.
However, most people insists on focussing on their pet issue instead of acknowledging the combination of problems.
BTW, I think started well (from post #13
but, in the face of resistance to acknowledgement of the obvious unemployment problem, I stopped looking for consensus - just like everyone else.
CBL
Nobody denied that, when it comes to these rioters, unemployment wasn't a problem. The difference is, you're saying that it is the problem, while I'm saying that it is a problem.Mmm, you apparently agree with CBL4, who basically says there aren't any jobs because the french economy isn't enough like the US economy... But then you think they should go looking for these non-existent jobs (according to CBL4, who you seem to agree with) instead of rioting... That's a very coherent position, hammegk! Care to explain that, please?
By the way, I do agree that there were other choices besides rioting... But if human beings were rational at all time, there wouldn't be a need for the word "sceptic".
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chran
Muse
Dude, I know your avatar is John Wayne, but gunning down a person to prevent destruction of property? Shirley, you jest!
Nick Bogaerts
Muse
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2005
- Messages
- 617
That is a very American thing to do; I'd rather leave it and hope for the best. But then I would consider my employees safety worth more than the cost of an insurance cover.