What's going on in Paris?

[BPSCG]

That is a very American thing to do; I'd rather leave it and hope for the best.

Well, I read now that it's not just Paris, they firebombed a bus in Toulouse, which is almost as far from Paris as you can go and still be in France.

So, now that you've left your shop to the arsonists and hoped for the best, what are you going to do when there's no place left to hide?

At what point do you say,"Enough!" and start shooting back?

 

[Chaos]

That is a very American thing to do; I'd rather leave it and hope for the best. But then I would consider my employees safety worth more than the cost of an insurance cover.

Speaking of which... in Germany "public unrising" (the German term is "Innere Unruhen") is not covered by insurance. Is that the same in France? Since, if it is, people who lost their car or shop or whatever to these riot will be in for another rude surprise once the smoke clears.

 

[Ed]

Dude, I know your avatar is John Wayne, but gunning down a person to prevent destruction of property? Shirley, you jest!

My property? Yes. You can let yours go if you like. Ummm....would you expect to be reimbursed if it was destroyed?

 

[Ed]

Speaking of which... in Germany "public unrising" (the German term is "Innere Unruhen") is not covered by insurance. Is that the same in France? Since, if it is, people who lost their car or shop or whatever to these riot will be in for another rude surprise once the smoke clears.

Same thing here. There are exceptions for "civil commotion" (what a great word).

 

[Manny]

Dude, I know your avatar is John Wayne, but gunning down a person to prevent destruction of property? Shirley, you jest!

I'm not jesting. We're not talking taking a key to a car's paint job here. I'm talking about one's business -- one's livlihood, the way one feeds one's family. I believe that you have a absolute moral duty to defend that if you can, with violence if necessary.

 

[chran]

I'm not jesting. We're not talking taking a key to a car's paint job here. I'm talking about one's business -- one's livlihood, the way one feeds one's family. I believe that you have a absolute moral duty to defend that if you can, with violence if necessary.

I don't see that as a proportional response.

Firebomb = Burning building
Gun = Dead person

And no, Burning bulding != Dead family.

 

[Grammatron]

I don't see that as a proportional response.

Firebomb = Burning building
Gun = Dead person

And no, Burning bulding != Dead family.

Your formulas, if I may call them that, are flawed. Gun doesn't have to equal dead person and Firebomb is more than just burning building. I'll forgo the unlikely chance of someone dying, but if your business is gone and you depended on it to live on and now suddenly you have to find the money to rebuild it and still put food on the table.

I found the whole method of thinking bizzare, someone is burining your store and you hide and wait till it's over and not even try to stop them. What the heck kind of mindset is it?

 

[Nick Bogaerts]

Speaking of which... in Germany "public unrising" (the German term is "Innere Unruhen") is not covered by insurance. Is that the same in France? Since, if it is, people who lost their car or shop or whatever to these riot will be in for another rude surprise once the smoke clears.

Depends on the insurance, I guess. I don't owna car or shop, so I wouldn't know. But on the household insurance, arson is covered.

 

[Nick Bogaerts]

So, now that you've left your shop to the arsonists and hoped for the best, what are you going to do when there's no place left to hide?

At what point do you say,"Enough!" and start shooting back?

When something which cannot be replaced is at stake, such as life. But not property.

 

[Nick Bogaerts]

I found the whole method of thinking bizzare, someone is burining your store and you hide and wait till it's over and not even try to stop them. What the heck kind of mindset is it?

A pragmatic mindset, which is more conductive to long life and happiness than a heroic one. Achilles had a choice. He could live forever as a Man, or make war on Illion and die a God. I'm not in a messianic mood.

 

[Grammatron]

When something which cannot be replaced is at stake, such as life. But not property.

You assume business can be easily rebuilt and you also assume a gun would cause death.

 

[Grammatron]

A pragmatic mindset, which is more conductive to long life and happiness than a heroic one. Achilles had a choice. He could live forever as a Man, or make war on Illion and die a God. I'm not in a messianic mood.

I somehow doubt that a destruction of my business by some ****s would make me more happy than deffending it from being destroyed.

Although I admit, you are not me and it might indeed put you mindset of happiness.

 

[CBL4]

Originally posted by Orwell[/]
Nobody denied that, when it comes to these rioters, unemployment wasn't a problem. The difference is, you're saying that it is the problem, while I'm saying that it is a problem.

This is not true. My first post said "they also face discrimination."

Your first post about unemployment was:

Which anti-employment laws do you think France has?

Your next three posts about econimics were jokes. The natural assumption was that you did not see unemployment as a problem. It was not until dozens of post later that you admitted that unemployment was part of the problem.

You and most internet posters have an immediate tendency to look for points of disagreement instead of agreement. Especially when it is someone you habitually disagree with.

CBL

 

[BPSCG]

This kinda supports a hypothesis I've been working on for a couple of years, regarding why Americans and Europeans, despite a common heritage, are in some ways so different.

The vast majority of us on the west side of the Atlantic are here because our ancestors were fed up with life in the Old Country. Most of them didn't know anyone here and a great many of them didn't speak the language, and had no clear idea how they would earn a living once they got here. They were often leaving behind friends and even family - my parents are people's exhibit A. They did all this because they no longer wanted to be taxed to death by the king, or burned to death by the priest, and were willing to risk the devil they didn't know as long as it got them away from the devil they did. Those restless, dissatisfied people came over here and they passed their lives' lessons and their values on to their children.

They left behind people who liked the way things were in Europe; very few princes and dukes came over to strike out a new life in the New World. And they also left behind the people who might not have liked the way things were in Europe, but were more afraid of the devil they didn't know than the devil they already did. And those people passed their lives' lessons and their values on to their children.

So today we see the Americans here shaking our heads in baffled wonder at the Frenchmen who won't shoot at people trying to burn down their homes and their businesses. And the French here shaking their heads in baffled wonder at people who would shoot at someone who was trying to burn down their homes and their businesses.

 

[Nick Bogaerts]

I somehow doubt that a destruction of my business by some ****s would make me more happy than deffending it from being destroyed.

Although I admit, you are not me and it might indeed put you mindset of happiness.

If the defense is succesful, then you are better off. Dirty Harry was on TV an hour ago. All the bad guys had guns, and so did he. He was much faster than anyone else and all the baddies were killed without any innocents getting hit in the crossfire. He, of course, is a fictional character.

In real life, unfortunately, you are just as likely to end up in hospital with your shop burnt anyway.

 

[Manny]

I don't see that as a proportional response.

Firebombing a building which has done nothing to you is not a proportional response in the first place. It is the firebomber who has complete control of the process. He keeps his matchbook in his pocket and limits himself to glowering or yelling or whatever and everyone's happy.

 

[Grammatron]

If the defense is succesful, then you are better off. Dirty Harry was on TV an hour ago. All the bad guys had guns, and so did he. He was much faster than anyone else and all the baddies were killed without any innocents getting hit in the crossfire. He, of course, is a fictional character.

And thus that paragraph is irrelevent.

In real life, unfortunately, you are just as likely to end up in hospital with your shop burnt anyway.

Perhaps, or perhas the rioters will think twice going into the retail district knowing many shopkeepers there have guns and are willing to use them.

I recall riots in Los Angeles. At first police took up the strategy of "Ok, let's just leave them be we don't want to harm anyone and make it worse." A billion dollar in damages later they sent in the National Guard and for some "odd" reason the riots stopped. Of course they didn't just start randomly shooting people, in fact many did not even have bullits in the guns. But just the idea of being shot stopped many from looting and rioting.

 

[Ed]

This is called being a victim.

 

[Ed]

In real life, unfortunately, you are just as likely to end up in hospital with your shop burnt anyway.

Yes, and if enough people had backbone rioters would think twice before trashing a community. Don't you owe something to your neighbors? Helping them defend or saying that there is a line that civilized people do not cross? Do really feel that if the state does not provide you are helpless?

 

[Chaos]

Depends on the insurance, I guess. I don't owna car or shop, so I wouldn't know. But on the household insurance, arson is covered.

Err... no. I guess, at least. If you look at the terms of insurance, there are some general exclusions, which means that, if any of thise happens, no matter what the more immediate cause is, it´s not covered. In Germany, in every kind of insurance, these exclusion include war, public unrest, and deliberate acts of the policy holder.

So, if the arson is an isolated crime, it is covered. If it is part of a war or riot, or if you do it yourself, it is not covered. At least if these exclusions are in your policy. As far as I know, they are fairly universal; you might be able to get war and unrest coverage from Lloyds of London (they insure everything - for a price), but never for deliberate acts (which would be contrary to the whole idea of insurances, anyway).