School shooting Florida

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This is horrific. “In November, a tipster called BSO to say Cruz ‘could be a school shooter in the making’ but deputies did not write up a report on that warning. It came just weeks after a relative called urging BSO to seize his weapons.”
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More: ”Two years ago, according to a newly released timeline of interactions with Cruz’s family, a deputy investigated a report that Cruz ‘planned to shoot up the school’ – intelligence that was forwarded to the school’s resource officer, with no apparent result.”
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https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/966853645441667072

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/966853791172780033
 
LTC8K6 said:
Loose blocks are really not very indicative of what will happen with a wall.
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That was my thought too. I can shatter a block with one swipe of a hammer, not so on a standing cured wall. I live on the East Coast in the hurricane zone too, and every school I've been in, built from the 1940's to the 2000's, was all concrete block (not cinder block- they contain biodegradable ashes). Mortared together and cells filled with rebar and grouted at intervals. No drywall partitions anywhere. I assumed that was to minimize damage from students who might bang into them and expose wiring, as well as the maintenance nightmare of constantly fixing and painting drywall.

Interesting video though. I wouldn't have thought a 12ga would penetrate, and would have thought a 9mm would.
 
Yesterday, it was reported that the armed SRO arrived at the building as the shooting was taking place, and did not go in to confront the shooter.

The local chief/sheriff was really going off on this, maintaining that the officer should have gone in to stop the carnage. (The guy, of retirement age, evidently quit)

Now, I’ve been to a lot of “active shooter” training over the years, and the paradigm of all the training has been NOT to go in alone. The ideal is 3-4 officers going in using a “diamond formation” small-unit tactics exactly as the military does.

Two officers would be a bare minimum. One pistol-armed officer going up against a suspect with an AR would have been at a severe disadvantage at best
Sounds to me like the guy was simply following existing protocol, rather than being cowardly.
 
Thermal said:
and every school I've been in, built from the 1940's to the 2000's, was all concrete block (not cinder block- they contain biodegradable ashes).
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I guess I meant concrete block when I said cinderblock. I don't know the specific terms. I know it's the big grayish building blocks. I've always said "cinderblock" when referring to them but I guess that's just a generic term.
 
William Parcher said:
I guess I meant concrete block when I said cinderblock. I don't know the specific terms. I know it's the big grayish building blocks. I've always said "cinderblock" when referring to them but I guess that's just a generic term.
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Yeah, it was offered as a clarification, not a correction.
 
Bikewer said:
Yesterday, it was reported that the armed SRO arrived at the building as the shooting was taking place, and did not go in to confront the shooter.

The local chief/sheriff was really going off on this, maintaining that the officer should have gone in to stop the carnage. (The guy, of retirement age, evidently quit)

Now, I’ve been to a lot of “active shooter” training over the years, and the paradigm of all the training has been NOT to go in alone. The ideal is 3-4 officers going in using a “diamond formation” small-unit tactics exactly as the military does.

Two officers would be a bare minimum. One pistol-armed officer going up against a suspect with an AR would have been at a severe disadvantage at best
Sounds to me like the guy was simply following existing protocol, rather than being cowardly.
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Got to have a Scapegoat.
 
The cop who didn't go inside is 32 years on the police force and also a military veteran. Said to be a stellar officer.

CNN said:
In 2015, Sheriff Israel applauded Scot Peterson's then-30-year tenure.

"Your dedication and allegiance are the best illustrations of the service [the sheriff's office] provides to the people of Broward County," Israel wrote, according to records.

Peterson also had two officer of the year recommendations.
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Bikewer said:
Yesterday, it was reported that the armed SRO arrived at the building as the shooting was taking place, and did not go in to confront the shooter.

The local chief/sheriff was really going off on this, maintaining that the officer should have gone in to stop the carnage. (The guy, of retirement age, evidently quit)

Now, I’ve been to a lot of “active shooter” training over the years, and the paradigm of all the training has been NOT to go in alone. The ideal is 3-4 officers going in using a “diamond formation” small-unit tactics exactly as the military does.

Two officers would be a bare minimum. One pistol-armed officer going up against a suspect with an AR would have been at a severe disadvantage at best
Sounds to me like the guy was simply following existing protocol, rather than being cowardly.
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Wouldn't one trained man have a better than average chance against some punk though? Not to be overly crude, but I can't picture a trained, armed guy just sitting back saying '**** those kids, I'm not going in there'. Why have an armed guard at all if he won't engage till additional backup arrives? Who is going to face the public and say 'yeah, we tell the armed guards to let the kids get shot up rather than put themselves at any risk'. Tough justification.
 
Thermal said:
Wouldn't one trained man have a better than average chance against some punk though? Not to be overly crude, but I can't picture a trained, armed guy just sitting back saying '**** those kids, I'm not going in there'. Why have an armed guard at all if he won't engage till additional backup arrives? Who is going to face the public and say 'yeah, we tell the armed guards to let the kids get shot up rather than put themselves at any risk'. Tough justification.
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I think we'd all accept that there's a point at which we would think it reasonable for a single officer armed with a handgun to decline attending a shooting incident without backup. The question is, where is that line?

Or would we expect the officer to have risked his life if, for instance, rather than one shooter it was five or then or twenty?
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Got to have a Scapegoat.
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I wonder if Peterson can or will or would sue. Is that option cancelled after he resigns?

He wasn't terminated but he was suspended without pay. Then he resigned.

Given the way the world works nowadays, he will be getting death threats right now.
 
Thermal said:
Wouldn't one trained man have a better than average chance against some punk though? Not to be overly crude, but I can't picture a trained, armed guy just sitting back saying '**** those kids, I'm not going in there'. Why have an armed guard at all if he won't engage till additional backup arrives? Who is going to face the public and say 'yeah, we tell the armed guards to let the kids get shot up rather than put themselves at any risk'. Tough justification.
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one trained man with a pistol against an unknown number of people with semiautomatic rifles who only have to not shoot themselves, as opposed
to the police officer needing to not shoot students?
 
State legislators in Florida advance Bill HB 839 which would require every public school in Florida to display "in a conspicuous place" the state motto, "In God We Trust."

The bill's sponsor in the House, Rep. Kimberly Daniels, a Democrat from Jacksonville said "It is not a secret that we have some gun issues that need to be addressed, but the real thing that needs to be addressed are issues of the heart,"

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...hare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social


So that's all right then.
 
If the armed officer is not going to intervene against an intruder with a gun, then why is he there?

He either doesn't need to be there, or he doesn't need to be armed if the policy is not to confront an armed suspect.
 
3point14 said:
I think we'd all accept that there's a point at which we would think it reasonable for a single officer armed with a handgun to decline attending a shooting incident without backup. The question is, where is that line?
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This Sheriff says that his Deputies are now going to have semi-automatic rifles (assault type) when at a school campus.
 
3point14 said:
I think we'd all accept that there's a point at which we would think it reasonable for a single officer armed with a handgun to decline attending a shooting incident without backup. The question is, where is that line?

Or would we expect the officer to have risked his life if, for instance, rather than one shooter it was five or then or twenty?
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I think that when you put on a badge and carry a gun, then yes, you have accepted that you will be putting yourself at some extreme lethal risk. Standing down and watching till you are confident that you will personally be safe while others are being shot is not a reasonable position to take. I consider carrying a gun to entail a very serious commitment.
 
jimbob said:
one trained man with a pistol against an unknown number of people with semiautomatic rifles who only have to not shoot themselves, as opposed
to the police officer needing to not shoot students?
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True, he didn't know how many shooters. Did he try to find out by at least tentatively engaging? Not that I've heard reported.
 
Meadmaker said:
Ive never been in a school built with drywall construction. My guess is too little sound barrier between classrooms.

I think there are a lot of cinderblock walls. I haven't paid close attention, but school walls are a lot more durable.
I think the kids shot in classrooms were probably shot through doors, which bullets could easily penetrate.
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I have. A school was being built just across from a parking lot I spent most of two years sitting in waiting for my kids to get out of extra curricular activities. Exterior walls were reinforced poured concrete with rigid foam forms. Very cool to watch. Interior walls were steel studs with a heavy version of sheetrock. It was not the same stuff used in residential construction, but I can't remember what made me note that.

Seeing this I checked out my kids school to see if they used the same. I couldn't tell on the exterior walls because of the brick veneer, but most of the interior walls are not cinderblock. Some are, but certainly not all. This school is maybe 15 years old.

My impression is that modern school construction is more like office park construction while the schools we went to were more cinder block.
 
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Thermal said:
I think that when you put on a badge and carry a gun, then yes, you have accepted that you will be putting yourself at some extreme lethal risk. Standing down and watching till you are confident that you will personally be safe while others are being shot is not a reasonable position to take. I consider carrying a gun to entail a very serious commitment.
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I'm minded to agree, but I don't think the officer is required to be flat out suicidal.
 
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