General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

[Dash80]

Interesting, but idiotic.

"German military journal that the attempt to dispose of the bodies of soldiers by opening mass graves and filling them with tar "resulted in charring of the uppermost layer of the corpses, the baking of the intermediate layer, and no effect on the bottom layer."

That sounds about right. But we're off into fantasy land with ... "filling them with tar" ....

"Frolich wrote ..... "

Frolick could have written that the sky was filled with wild geese, but ... where is the evidence. We need evidence, not testimony.

"[Creteur] determined to cover the graves with a layer of chloride of lime, and to pour diluted muriatic acid upon them subsequently"

Chloride of lime, muriatic acid, ..... not cremation. But, even so, what evidence is cited in these reports.

"In this way 45,855 human and equine bodies were disposed of. "

Evidence given?

Your reading apprehension is appalling. You didn't read those reports, you just cherry picked a few things you thought you could mock.

Funniest thing is your insistence that bodies only burn on grates, which WERE used in the AR camps and numerous other places. So I take it you won't be handwaving cremations in those cases?

 

[Saggy]

More images from the page ....

View the Auschwitz Album - Visual Evidence of Mass Murder‎

Here is some of the damning evidence ....

The caption ...

"Women prisoners on the way to their barracks"

I was aware of the Auschwitz Album several years ago, and I note that they changed the caption on the picture in the new page ... you can see the old page on the wayback machine.

The caption for the same picture a few years ago ...

"Women who were classified as "able-bodied for work" and whose heads had already been shaved, being sent to the women’s section of the camp known as BI. After the disinfection and registration process was complete, they were sent for long hours of back-breaking labor in different facilities in and out of the camp"

 

[Jeffk 1970]

Interesting, but idiotic.

Yer funny, Saggy. Maybe I can petition Pyrro on your behalf, get you back on Skeptics. If nothing else you would provide an entertaining diversion......

You'd have to promise to behave yourself, I think. Pyrro's lightened up a bit, whaddya say, want me to put in a good word for you?

"German military journal that the attempt to dispose of the bodies of soldiers by opening mass graves and filling them with tar "resulted in charring of the uppermost layer of the corpses, the baking of the intermediate layer, and no effect on the bottom layer."

That sounds about right.

So you accept the bit that conforms to your world view. That says a lot about you.

But we're off into fantasy land with ... "filling them with tar" ....

Why? Is tar not flammable? Can you not pour tar into a pit? What is the issue with tar, Saggy?

"Frolich wrote ..... "

Frolick could have written that the sky was filled with wild geese, but ... where is the evidence. We need evidence, not testimony.

Yet Mattogno (you do know who Mattogno is, don't you? Please tell me that I don't have to give you a lesson in The Who's Who world of denial) accepted that the document was genuine enough to misquote it.

Frolich (that's actually how you spell that, Saggy. Pay attention!!!) actually mentioned the issues detailed in this procedure and then gave instructions how to solve it. What is the issue with that?

Saggy, that is actually evidence. Reports and findings of commissions count as such. I realize you have issues with understanding how this whole history thing works so I'm really trying to be patient with you.

"[Creteur] determined to cover the graves with a layer of chloride of lime, and to pour diluted muriatic acid upon them subsequently"

Chloride of lime, muriatic acid, ..... not cremation.

You missed this bit:

He then had large quantities of coal poured into the pit... He then had more chloride of lime heaped upon the corpses, and finally had bundles of hay, previously saturated with kerosene thrown into the pit. Creteur declares that from 200 to 300 were consumed within 50 to 60 minutes.... About one fourth of all the contents remained in the pits, consisting of calcined bones and a dry mass. These were again covered with chloride of lime, and the trenches were closed. In this way 45,855 human and equine bodies were disposed of. [280]

Is the issue about the flammability of coal and kerosene? Do I need to provide links to their properties?

But, even so, what evidence is cited in these reports.

Really trying to be patient here, Saggy......

"In this way 45,855 human and equine bodies were disposed of. "

Evidence given?

The observations of the person that utilized this method and found that it worked.
BTW, I don't really understand what the issue. The reports I cited have nothing to do with dead Jews.

Now, what I want you to do is run along and find something that refutes my original link.

I'll also give you some credit, Saggy. I thought you would ignore my post and said so at Skeptics. You exceeded my expectations, bully for you.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Evidence given?

Seriously? ROFL good one . . .

 

[LemmyCaution]

More images from the page ....

View the Auschwitz Album - Visual Evidence of Mass Murder‎

Here is some of the damning evidence ....

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/PABANuD.jpg[/qimg]

The caption ...

"Women prisoners on the way to their barracks"

I was aware of the Auschwitz Album several years ago, and I note that they changed the caption on the picture in the new page ... you can see the old page on the wayback machine.

The caption for the same picture a few years ago ...

"Women who were classified as "able-bodied for work" and whose heads had already been shaved, being sent to the women’s section of the camp known as BI. After the disinfection and registration process was complete, they were sent for long hours of back-breaking labor in different facilities in and out of the camp"

So? My edition (Auschwitz Museum and YV, 2002, printed) has the following caption for this photo and 2 others: "With thin blankets, the female prisoners will soon see their bunks for the first time. On the right are the kitchen building and some prisoners." p 212

You've really found something there, Saggy, different editors write captions for different formats with differing amounts of detail. No Holocaust!

YV still has the longer caption up at http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/album_auschwitz/photo_49.asp

 

[carlitos]

Suggestion: Every time Saggy says "degenerate," we all do a shot.


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[Saggy]

You've really found something there, Saggy, different editors write captions for different formats with differing amounts of detail. No Holocaust!

The point is the women worked in and out of the camp. Totally inconsistent with the holohoax narrative where the gassings were a big secret.

So, Yad Vashem scratched that little bit of info.

 

[Saggy]

Suggestion: Every time Saggy says "degenerate," we all do a shot.


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Assuming you read my post explaining what it means in this context, I suggest having two !

 

[Jeffk 1970]

The point is the women worked in and out of the camp. Totally inconsistent with the holohoax narrative where the gassings were a big secret.

So, Yad Vashem scratched that little bit of info.

Oh, was there some bit about the SS providing guided tours of their gas chambers that I missed somewhere?

Saggy, the reason why these women weren't gassed is that they had value as labor. I know you don't really understand what Auschwitz was so I'll help you:

Auschwitz I was the original camp. It did briefly serve as an extermination point for small numbers of Soviet, Polish and Jewish prisoners in Block 11 and Krema I but the Germans figured out this wasn't suitable for convenience and secrecy so they later opened:

Auschwitz II, or Auschwitz-Birkenau. Originally intended as a Soviet POW camp, when Soviet POWS were redirected for labor this became the primary camp for Jews. The Germans used Bunker I and II as makeshift gas chambers until Krema II & III were built, later Krema IV & V opened. The Germans housed Jews (and others) in this camp for use as labor after selections were made. The others included gypsies, etc.

Auschwitz III or Auschwitz-Monowitz was where the industrial plant was. There were no gas chambers in III.

There were also dozens of satellite camps around Auschwitz where labor was directed and transfers to other camps did happen.

So, that's it in a nutshell. I've kept it simple for you, Saggy. The point is those women may have heard rumors regarding gas chambers but they only saw them from a distance. Those rumors were rampant throughout the camp and elsewhere but the only people who saw the gas chambers operate were the SK's and the SS. This of course led to the ridiculous talk about showers that also operated as gas chambers, there were no such thing but the misunderstanding is understandable based on the circumstances. It's akin to the rumors about "Jewish soap."

 

[Jeffk 1970]

Assuming you read my post explaining what it means in this context, I suggest having two !

Two things, Saggy:

1) Do you have any reply regarding cremation?

2) Do you want me to request amnesty for you at Skeptics?

I'd like to have you back, I'm not fond of this format, it's a bit clunky. That way you could open topics to your heart's content. This would also liven the joint up a bit, all of our resident deniers bolted for greener pastures after they could no longer cut it.

Or, if you don't want me to do that for you, if you have any denier friends you want to send in our direction feel free.

 

[Belz...]

So as usual saggy just ignores the evidence because the evidence is, by definition, not worth looking at because it supports the "wrong" conclusion.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Suggestion: Every time Saggy says "degenerate," we all do a shot.


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I'm already dizzy.

 

[Border Reiver]

Suggestion: Every time Saggy says "degenerate," we all do a shot.


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I don't have that much alcohol available. How about when he uses that word appropriately and in context?

 

[LemmyCaution]

The point is the women worked in and out of the camp. Totally inconsistent with the holohoax narrative where the gassings were a big secret.

So, Yad Vashem scratched that little bit of info.

Of course not, for one thing, check out the link I posted with the longer caption that contains that "suspect" information: "Copyright © 2017 Yad Vashem. The World Holocaust Remembrance Center." So they scratched that information by, er retaining it. Ok then.

Also, camp histories, including the 5-volume history I told you about, and Piotr Setkiewicz, The Histories of Auschwitz IG Farben Werk Camps, 1941-1945 (2008) and Franciszek Piper, Auschwitz Prisoner Labor (2002), for sale by the Auschwitz Museum for those who actually read, explain labor deployment, living and "travel" arrangements, the various work sites, and other aspects of this.

You think there is a "cover up" because you don't know anything about the sources you're using - and somehow you manage to know even less about the range of literature and what it says.

Try harder, please. It gets tedious.

 

[Saggy]

You think there is a "cover up" because .....

I don't think there is a cover-up, I demonstrated a cover-up.

But, nevermind that ....


Despite my repeated requests for a discussion of the testimony of one credible Jewish eyewitness to the hoax, along with the corroborating testimony and physical evidence supporting the eyewitness account, none of the resident hoaxers has been up to the challenge.

So, if the hoaxers won't present the evidence for the hoax, I'll do it myself. And I use only 100% kosher sources, so we'll know the story is coming right from the horse's .... mouth, so to speak.

Let's look to Yad Vashem, on their Auschwitz Album page, which shows the only photographic evidence for the hoax at Auschwitz, "he only surviving visual evidence of the process leading to the mass murder at Auschwitz-Birkenau. "

Here we have ....

"Women and children on the Birkenau arrival platform known as the "ramp". The Jews were removed from the deportation trains onto the ramp where they faced a selection process - some were sent immediately to their deaths, while others were sent to slave labor"

With proof like this, who can doubt the hoax?

 

[LemmyCaution]

I don't think there is a cover-up, I demonstrated a cover-up.

But, nevermind that ....

For sure, continuing to defend a ridiculous claim will make you look even more ridiculous. Good call.

Despite my repeated requests for a discussion of the testimony of one credible Jewish eyewitness to the hoax, along with the corroborating testimony and physical evidence supporting the eyewitness account, none of the resident hoaxers has been up to the challenge.

False. We have offered a number of names which you refuse to discuss, using excuses like too many links, too much to read, degenerate lies, etc. Stop lying.

. . . And I use only 100% kosher sources, so we'll know the story is coming right from the horse's .... mouth, so to speak.

And stop with the anti-Semitic BS.

Let's look to Yad Vashem, on their Auschwitz Album page, which shows the only photographic evidence for the hoax at Auschwitz, "he only surviving visual evidence of the process leading to the mass murder at Auschwitz-Birkenau. "

Your claims about this have been proven wrong by discussion of 1) the SK photos, 2) aerial photos of the camp, and 3) your dishonestly changed wording.

Here we have ....

"Women and children on the Birkenau arrival platform known as the "ramp". The Jews were removed from the deportation trains onto the ramp where they faced a selection process - some were sent immediately to their deaths, while others were sent to slave labor"< photo deleted >

With proof like this, who can doubt the hoax?

It is evidence of - sigh, again - the overall handling of a transport. The caption informs viewers of where that photo fits into the overall process.

Your posts are getting less and less coherent, which is quite an accomplishment, given where you started.

 

[Saggy]

Your posts are getting less and less coherent, which is quite an accomplishment, given where you started.

Hey, it's not easy presenting evidence for the hoax. Perhaps you should give it a try

On the other hand, there are lot more photos on Yad Vashem worthy of consideration.

 

[Dash80]

Hey, it's not easy presenting evidence for the hoax. Perhaps you should give it a try

On the other hand, there are lot more photos on Yad Vashem worthy of consideration.

There is no evidence of a hoax. You certainly haven't provided any, when do you plan on starting to?

 

[Dash80]

Suggestion: Every time Saggy says "degenerate," we all do a shot.


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That's just asking for a dose of alcohol poisoning.

 

[Jeffk 1970]

I don't think there is a cover-up, I demonstrated a cover-up.

I've said it before, yer funny, Saggy.

But, nevermind that ....

Okie dokie.

Despite my repeated requests for a discussion of the testimony of one credible Jewish eyewitness to the hoax, along with the corroborating testimony and physical evidence supporting the eyewitness account, none of the resident hoaxers has been up to the challenge.

That's because we're not sure what it is you want or you'll accept.
It's a bit of a waste of time if we provide you evidence and then you ask what the evidence is.
Kinda like the cremation thing, you haven't answered me on that one. I'll table it....for now.

So, if the hoaxers won't present the evidence for the hoax, I'll do it myself.

Oh, goodie. This should be fun.

And I use only 100% kosher sources, so we'll know the story is coming right from the horse's .... mouth, so to speak.

Who doesn't love racial humor?
Well, most of us but we'll table that one for now.

Let's look to Yad Vashem, on their Auschwitz Album page, which shows the only photographic evidence for the hoax at Auschwitz, "he only surviving visual evidence of the process leading to the mass murder at Auschwitz-Birkenau. "

Here we have ....

"Women and children on the Birkenau arrival platform known as the "ramp". The Jews were removed from the deportation trains onto the ramp where they faced a selection process - some were sent immediately to their deaths, while others were sent to slave labor"


With proof like this, who can doubt the hoax?

And?

Some were sent to their deaths, others separated out for labor. Generally women with children were killed, along with the old and sick. Young women without children who could work were allowed to live, along with the men. Some children, if they were old enough, were selected for labor as well. This included children who were taller and/or stronger than they looked for their age. The SS weren't operating off of IDs or birth certificates, people were chosen for how they looked. This also included men and women who were older but still appeared able to work. Sometimes specialists like doctors or those with useful skills were spared regardless.

All of this matches known history, Saggy.