nurse cuffed by cop for not breaking law

[Beady]

While covering bad cops makes for better headlines and sells more ad space, the good the police do far outweighs the bad.

My daughter is a police officer with a degree; this makes me biased, but I'm not blinded by prejudice either.

The saying in the news media is that, "If it bleeds, it leads." That is, drama sells.

It's also worth pointing out that police misbehavior in the United States is rare enough that it is considered news; if good cops were in the minority, presumably they would get into the news far more often than they do and we would rarely hear about the bad cops.

Also, most incidents that make the news don't seem to involve "bad cops," in the sense of corrupt or malevalent, so much as poorly-trained or less-competent. Perhaps the bar should be raised before putting them on the street.

Full disclosure: I've attended two different citizens' police academies and, I suppose, have a natural bias. OTOH, while not making too much of it, I think I can claim to have a little direct aquaintance with the subject.

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[Beady]

Law enforcement is a necessary evil. They should be given as small as role as possible and not have it expanded such that their power is inflated.

How much is that?

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[ddt]

It's also worth pointing out that police misbehavior in the United States is rare enough that it is considered news; if good cops were in the minority, presumably they would get into the news far more often than they do and we would rarely hear about the bad cops.

Do we really know the extent of police misbehavior?

I note that Ms. Wubbels had hired a lawyer, who had an elaborate correspondence with the police, before she released the bodycam footage to the press. How many people can, or want, to spend that money on an uncertain outcome? The proliferation of smartphone cameras (for third-party witnesses) and bodycams and dashcams has certainly brought much more of these cases to the attention of the public with undeniable documentation, but it doesn't mean we get to see all of them; I'd think still a minority, and that in the great majority of the cases, the victim either doesn't have the money or doesn't think it worth to go with it to the press. The police can still harass, in a one-on-one situation, a poor black kid in the ghetto - there's also still a racial disparity to this due to racial income inequality.

Also, most incidents that make the news don't seem to involve "bad cops," in the sense of corrupt or malevalent, so much as poorly-trained or less-competent. Perhaps the bar should be raised before putting them on the street.

Does it really matter if the cop was "bad" or "poorly trained" when you end up dead, like Mr. Castillo or the Australian lady whose name evades me at the moment?

And personally, I would probably put the bar on "misconduct" much lower than you, especially when it comes to incidents with a deadly outcome. I'm not saying every victim of a police shooting is unjustified, but those two are beyond the pale IMHO.

 

[BillC]

Am I the only one finding it disturbing that there's such a thing as a "Police phlebotomist", who's supposedly trained to take blood?

I do. I have no idea whether it is possible in the UK.

 

[Beady]

And personally, I would probably put the bar on "misconduct" much lower than you, especially when it comes to incidents with a deadly outcome. I'm not saying every victim of a police shooting is unjustified, but those two are beyond the pale IMHO.

Umm, I meant the bar on training. Pleas reread what I wrote.



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[Skeptic Ginger]

...
BTW, blood drawing is a no-brainer that can be performed by a paraplegic urangotan, and can be taught in five minutes....

I'm on the side of why not teach cops to draw blood, there are times it makes sense.

But as for drawing blood being a no brainer, as someone who draws blood several times a week and has for decades, there is more to it than that, the main thing being a person needs to draw enough blood on a regular basis to stay good at it.

The procedure is easy, the skill is acquired with practice, a lot of it.

 

[Ziggurat]

It does limit their power. Doing those things improved their public standing and leads to such notions that police are positive.

Oh noes!!!!!

This grants them more ability to convince.

Oh noes!!!!!

Law enforcement should be viewed as lepers.

Conditions in places where this is true suggests to me that we should do otherwise.

Look, I get the whole government is a necessary evil thing. But you're just taking it to ridiculous extremes. Plus, you're tilting at windmills. Your view will never, ever hold sway. You must know this.

 

[BobTheCoward]

l

Look, I get the whole government is a necessary evil thing. But you're just taking it to ridiculous extremes. Plus, you're tilting at windmills. Your view will never, ever hold sway. You must know this.

Extremism in the name of liberty is no vice. Also, tilting at windmills is about imaginary enemies. Here, the enemies are real, I just will never win. I think the better idiom is sisyphean.

 

[Beady]

I'm on the side of why not teach cops to draw blood, there are times it makes sense.

But as for drawing blood being a no brainer, as someone who draws blood several times a week and has for decades, there is more to it than that, the main thing being a person needs to draw enough blood on a regular basis to stay good at it.

The procedure is easy, the skill is acquired with practice, a lot of it.

Shrug. I never had any problem.

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[Beady]

Extremism in the name of liberty is no vice. Also, tilting at windmills is about imaginary enemies. Here, the enemies are real, I just will never win. I think the better idiom is sisyphean.

That's "Extremism in *defense* of liberty is no vice." It continues, "Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

If you really think that liberty and justice would be better served with no police force, I really have no suggestion where you could realistically find such a society.

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[Ranb]

Law enforcement is a necessary evil. They should be given as small as role as possible and not have it expanded such that their power is inflated.

You are being rather vague. Exactly what powers should a police officer have and what kind of services rendered can be expected of them?

So should they be prohibited from rendering aid when needed in emergencies? I just bet would would limit an officer's response to you bleeding out on the pavement to calling for the EMT. I know one officer who was directed to use his police cruiser to rush medication between hospitals; at over 120 mph. There isn't always a helicopter or other medical vehicle around when you need it.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Shrug. I never had any problem.

This signature is intended to irritate people.

I take it that means you've never drawn blood from edematous end stage nursing home patient, an obese diabetic with extensive vascular disease or an IV drug user with no veins left?



If you drew blood on a regular basis you probably didn't have trouble. But a cop phlebotomist might not draw that often.

Remember, I'm on the same side of the issue as you.

 

[BobTheCoward]

So should they be prohibited from rendering aid when needed in emergencies? /QUOTE]

Yes

 

[Ziggurat]

Extremism in the name of liberty is no vice.

It's appropriate that you say "in the name of liberty", because it is in name only that you want cops to not do what any decent person would do. That doesn't actually advance the cause of liberty. And believing so is indeed delusion on a Quixotic level.

 

[BobTheCoward]

It's appropriate that you say "in the name of liberty", because it is in name only that you want cops to not do what any decent person would do. That doesn't actually advance the cause of liberty. And believing so is indeed delusion on a Quixotic level.

I think it does advance the cause

 

[BobTheCoward]

That's "Extremism in *defense* of liberty is no vice." It continues, "Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

If you really think that liberty and justice would be better served with no police force, I really have no suggestion where you could realistically find such a society.

This signature is intended to irritate people.

Thank you.

 

[Ziggurat]

I think it does advance the cause

Yes, I know you think that. But you're wrong. There's a complete disconnect between what you want and what would actually happen.

 

[Craig4]

I watched the video and I can't understand how the police officer thought he had legal authority to draw blood. The patient wasn't under arrest, he had no warrant and was not in a state to give consent. Where's the authority to get a blood draw? How could implied consent even apply here? This isn't complicated; it's basic police academy 101 stuff.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Yes, I know you think that. But you're wrong. There's a complete disconnect between what you want and what would actually happen.

That is where you are wrong. I would readily concede to you whatever outcome you say. I will probably still say it is a net benefit.

 

[Ziggurat]

That is where you are wrong. I would readily concede to you whatever outcome you say. I will probably still say it is a net benefit.

One wonders what you can possibly believe "benefit" consists of.