General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

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Saggy said:
Pure idiocy, as usual. If the lies were remote, or plausible, or anything but perfectly absurd, you might have a case, but when the Auschwitz Museum tells me that this is the door to a gas chamber, that cannot be a 'mistake', it is a preposterous and degenerate lie.

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/v4eaFPP.jpg?1[/qimg]

And, you must understand, every holohoax lie is just this absurd. So, it's not a mistake, or a myth, or a misunderstanding, or an urban legend, it is a collection of preposterous and degenerate lies.

You should have a look at the rest of this absurd 'gas chamber' ... see, for example ..

https://www.scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/Tour/Auschwitz1/Auschwitz08.html

There is an opening with no door whatever ! There is no ventilation. And yet, millions of people have been marched into this room, and told it was a gas chamber, and there were no cries of incredulity or guffaws. One person asked the guide why didn't the prisoners who were being gassed break the window ! The guide replied that a guard was stationed outside with instructions to shoot (see above link).

What does this say about human credulity? The power of propaganda when it comes from authoritative sources? It really is mind-boggling that anyone could imagine for one instant that this room was a gas chamber.
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Why do you keep on ignoring the explanation for the door and the lack of a door which you have been given, time and time again?

That is a genuine question which I would like you to answer.
 
Denialists hate to be asked questions about their beliefs and instead resort to tactics to try and discredit the evidence for the Holocaust (saying that's not a door to a gas chamber, whilst ignoring the building was modified after use as a gas chamber and it is not the original door).

They then claim if not A (mass murder), therefore B (mass survival) without being able to evidence B (where are all of those Dutch Jews?). Which would be easy, since it involves millions of people.
 
Nessie said:
That is a genuine question which I would like you to answer.
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At last ! An honest question :) The hoax gas chamber has been presented to the public for 60 years as being 'in its found state' .... as you can verify by watching this vid which is singularly important in revealing the hoax ....

David Cole interviews Auschwitz Museum direction F. Piper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ItUTx9QQAo

Even after the hoax was revealed in 199? the guides continue to present the hoax gas chamber as real ...

Robert Van Pelt "There are no signs to explain these restitutions, they were not marked at the time, and the guides remain silent about it when they take visitors through this building that is presumed by the tourist to be the place where it happened.""
 
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Saggy said:
At last ! An honest question :)
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All the questions you dodge are honest. You just don't like them and prefer picking and choosing which to answer.

An honest question you've been asked, a few times now, is how many Jews were deported from the Netherlands during the war; another is what happened to them. You've struck out on these.

Saggy said:
The hoax gas chamber has been presented to the public for 60 years as being 'in its found state' .... as you can verify by watching this vid which is singularly important in revealing the hoax ....

David Cole interviews Auschwitz Museum direction F. Piper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ItUTx9QQAo

Even after the hoax was revealed in 199? the guides continue to present the hoax gas chamber as real ...

Robert Van Pelt "There are no signs to explain these restitutions, they were not marked at the time, and the guides remain silent about it when they take visitors through this building that is presumed by the tourist to be the place where it happened.""
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You didn't answer the very question that you called honest; the question wasn't about old, old information regarding the reconstruction (common enough at historical sites) but about why you ignore what people explain to you about this door ("Why do you keep on ignoring the explanation for the door and the lack of a door which you have been given, time and time again?").
 
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Saggy said:
At last ! An honest question :) The hoax gas chamber has been presented to the public for 60 years as being 'in its found state' .... as you can verify by watching this vid which is singularly important in revealing the hoax ....
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given that the found state was that of an air raid shelter, how are they being dishonest?

Many historical sites have had portions changed throughout their period of use and the only part that can be currently seen is the last use of that site - it is not dishonest to cite the original purpose of the building or site.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
Never been the door of the gas chamber? It looks like the door of the gas chamber according to the Holocaust Museum.

The same type of door wasn't used at every gas chamber. This is a photograph of the door to the gas chamber at Dachau from the Holocaust Museum collection:

[qimg]http://idamclient.ushmm.org/IMAGES/(S(fqirqy55h5eik245wp2xidq4))/RetrieveAsset.aspx?instance=IDAM_USHMM&id=1034591&page=0&size=1&width=800&height=800&qfactor=2&type=asset[/qimg]

And yet another photograph of a different gas chamber door:

[qimg]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-irLWLoWqXeE/TxrKk6bKaUI/AAAAAAAAC9I/p30bTLJj8Lw/s1600/Auschwitz+1%252C2%252C3+January+2012+437.JPG[/qimg]

Have all these doors been debunked? Does that prove there were no gas chambers?
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I did not realize that I did not give a link to the door to Dackau gas chamber. Here it is.

I am pointing out to Degeneve that the door to every gas chamber was not identical. Disclaiming that the photograph Saggy posted was never a door to a gas chamber because it doesn't look like other gas chamber doors is wrong.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
I am pointing out to Degeneve that the door to every gas chamber was not identical. Disclaiming that the photograph Saggy posted was never a door to a gas chamber because it doesn't look like other gas chamber doors is wrong.
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Which no one did.

The reason that the image posted by Saggy doesn't show a door to a gas chamber is because the door in the photo wasn't ever a door to a gas chamber (explained here - "it was not a gas chamber door, so all the arguments comparing it to the 'real' gas chamber doors are irrelevant"); that is also why it looks the way it looks.
 
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Saggy said:
All that literature, and you can't prove that ONE Dutch Jew was killed by the Nazis.
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Where did those five millions Jews go?

The holohoax is a collection of degenerate lies, nothing more.
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Ooh! It's degenerate now, like neutronium!

Why should I bother reading a pack of more Jewish lies?
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Maybe because if you don't read anything you're not well placed to determine if they're lies or not.
 
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Saggy said:
Only the Soviets liberated death camps, the US did not liberate any death camps. What your uncles saw has nothing to do with the holohoax, which took place at Auschwitz, Majdanek, and 4 camps that were razed before the war ended.
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How can the holocaust have occured at Auschwitz if it's a hoax?

Slipping?
 
Saggy said:
Oh my, the hoaxers seem to really have their panties in a knot. And, it's not surprising I suppose, to have read all those books and still not be able to name one Jew who was gassed by the Nazis, and give the evidence for it. They have plenty of names, but, since none were gassed, no evidence of gassing. I can hear the hoaxers now, 'details, details'.
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So they don't have names.... but if they do, they weren't gassed. Seems like you have a nice circular argument, there.

To understand the hoax you have to understand its basis
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But whatever you do, don't read the literature!

The only way you can know that the holocaust is a hoax is by studying the matter.
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But not reading it.

We've all been brainwashed since birth practically with the lies.
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What's your basis for this conclusion?

My 9th grade daugher has visited the hoax museum in DC, heard from a survivor, and heard a presentation on Anne Frank, all part of her middle school education.
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That works _against_ your claim, you know?
 
Saggy said:
Pure idiocy, as usual. If the lies were remote, or plausible, or anything but perfectly absurd, you might have a case, but when the Auschwitz Museum tells me that this is the door to a gas chamber, that cannot be a 'mistake', it is a preposterous and degenerate lie.
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First, it's the door LEADING to the gas chamber. Second, this is a reconstruction, the S.S. dynamited the originals when they fled.

Look, we get it, the Nazis sucked all the fun out of antisemitism. The Holocaust was the logical end result of your way of thinking, and you can't reconcile this with the concept of wanting to be a good person. So you need the Final Solution to be fake in order to keep from dealing with the idea that deep down you'd sign up to wear a Swastika and do the exact same things.

My advice is to embrace the evil, and bask in the glory of the S.S. If you can't then you need to rethink your life.

:thumbsup:
 
Axxman300 said:
..you need the Final Solution to be fake in order to keep from dealing with the idea that deep down you'd sign up to wear a Swastika and do the exact same things.

My advice is to embrace the evil, and bask in the glory of the S.S. If you can't then you need to rethink your life.
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Yep, this! :thumbsup:
 
Saggy said:
... The hoax gas chamber has been presented to the public for 60 years as being 'in its found state' ....
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No, that's something you and the other deniers made up. There were four other gas chambers besides this one. Each had a crematorium and all were destroyed as you can plainly see in the last image in this series of photos (The last image is taken on 21 December, 1944). See below.

Oh, and sometimes the crematoriums broke down so the SS had to use open air pits. Keep that in mind. I'll just quote myself from last years fun with Joe Rizoli aka HDenier.

Elagabalus said:
Oh, HD, I gave you that link because I wanted you to see that there is a group of people on their way to the gas chambers (image 3).

http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/through-the-lens/auschwitz-aerial-photos.asp

It also gives an nice overview about when the Allies began their photo reconnaissance missions to Upper Silesia. They didn't bomb the Monowitz plant until September 13, 1944. Keep that date in mind. Before that date it was one plane with two cameras to provide stereoscopic 3D images of terrain and target detail for future bombing missions.

(Image 3) was taken on August 25th, 1944.

What's really interesting is this series of pictures taken on August 23rd, 1944.

6a00d83451bc4a69e20120a8c30694970b-800wi


http://ncap.org.uk/frame/1-1-89-1-73

Does anything stand out in that picture? That's right, there's a huge column of smoke rising up on the upper left-hand corner. C'mon, you can see it! This picture is just the start of the series. In the next shot you can see just how massive it is.

http://ncap.org.uk/frame/1-1-89-1-73

and into the next shot:

http://ncap.org.uk/frame/1-1-89-1-156

I would like to thank Sergey and Hans from HC for doing most of the heavy lifting:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2009/11/that-plume-was-actually-even-bigger.html

And Hans even made as series of animated gifs an example of which is shown below:

23Aug44_krema45_2_zps9ke17wnt.gif


http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.pt/2015/06/personal-movement-in-auschwitz-birkenau.html

That's some plume! I wonder what's happening down there? From the camp layout we know its right next to the alleged (according to you) crematoria 5 location.

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/media_nm.php?ModuleId=0&MediaId=304#

Something is definitely burning in a an open air pit (at the time the photo was taken) and you can see other unused pits right next to it. I wonder if there are any more clues to what exactly is burning in the pit?

I mean, apart from the eye witness testimonies and the confessions of the NAZI's themselves?

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.de/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html


The four pictures from the SonderKommandos taken from Crematoria 5. This cite has a map with the location of the person taking the photos. Unfortunately, it is mislabeled as Crematoria IV. (We all make mistakes and interestingly enough John Ball makes the same mistake, too).

https://web.archive.org/web/2005080...tudien.de/artikel.php?c=fotografie/resistance

Provenance of the photos discussed here:

https://books.google.de/books?id=P0CnKQpDIL8C&pg=PA114&hl=de#v=onepage&q&f=false


And it also corroborates Rudolf Hoess' testimony about open air cremations p.36-37.

https://www.amazon.com/Death-Dealer-Memoirs-Kommandant-Auschwitz/dp/0306806983#reader_0306806983


Now, don't bother thanking me ...
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Saggy said:
At last ! An honest question :) The hoax gas chamber has been presented to the public for 60 years as being 'in its found state' .... as you can verify by watching this vid which is singularly important in revealing the hoax ....

David Cole interviews Auschwitz Museum direction F. Piper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ItUTx9QQAo

Even after the hoax was revealed in 199? the guides continue to present the hoax gas chamber as real ...

Robert Van Pelt "There are no signs to explain these restitutions, they were not marked at the time, and the guides remain silent about it when they take visitors through this building that is presumed by the tourist to be the place where it happened.""
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That's nice.
What about the other gas chambers located in Birkenau? Do you not know about these, Saggy?

Also:
Unlike Krematorien II, III, IV and V, there are very few German documents concerned with Krematorium I. These do not make it possible to formally establish proof of homicidal gassing in its morgue and this lack of documentary evidence, together with the present state of the premises, has favoured revisionist attacks aimed at demonstrating that the gas chamber did not really exist. The fact is that while the building itself is still the original one, its internal arrangement, as found in January 1945, has been restructured and the installations connected with its cremation and gassing activities have been reconstructed and reconstituted, a fact which in the eyes of the revisionists negates their existence.
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http://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-...sac/technique-and-operation/pressac0011.shtml

Pressac wrote that book in 1989, Saggy, five years before Cole's expose.

Oh, and look!!!!

It was in 1975 that R. Faurisson succeeded in having a man in charge at the Auschwitz State Museum, Jan Machalek, admit that this so-called "gas chamber" was not "genuine" (in German: echt) but "reconstructed" (in German: rekonstruiert). Consequently, Faurisson asked: "Reconstructed according to the original plan?" and Machalek replied "yes". Therefore, coming back to Auschwitz in 1976, Faurisson asked Tadeusz Iwaszko, Director of the archives, whether Machalek had been right or not in saying that the so-called "gas chamber" was "reconstructed according to an original plan". And Iwaszko replied "Yes".
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http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/1993/01/letter-to-bradley-smith-and-david-cole.html?m=1

It troubles me that I know more denier stuff than you do.


No, scratch that, I think it's really funny.
 
Border Reiver said:
given that the found state was that of an air raid shelter, how are they being dishonest?
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It was not in its found state, the Soviets had constructed the hoax gas chamber, which you'd discover if you watch the linked vid.

Get it now ? :D
 
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