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China Flexes Military Muscle

And that attitude is the type responsible for the SU-27 eclipsing the F-15 and leaving it in the dust during a demo after the cold war...
Except for the poor reliability of the Russian aircraft, maneuverability, acceleration and avionics...

or the Mig-21s getting copius kills on the F-4s in Vietnam. You're so obsessed with supremacy that you forget the world moves on.
That was down to RoE.
Were the Mig-21s shot down by Broncos in Vietnam proof of the OV-10's superiority in air-to-air combat? :rolleyes:
 
Except for the poor reliability of the Russian aircraft, maneuverability, acceleration and avionics...

That was down to RoE.
Were the Mig-21s shot down by Broncos in Vietnam proof of the OV-10's superiority in air-to-air combat? :rolleyes:

Keep digging!
 
Has anyone suggested the Mig 21 wasn't a good aircraft.? Apart from early models instability when low on fuel.
 
Has anyone suggested the Mig 21 wasn't a good aircraft.? Apart from early models instability when low on fuel.

Just did a search and found this. There are several other articles you can find on the same subject.

December 9, 2011: India lost another MiG-21 fighter, the fifth to have crashed this year. That's over 71 percent of Indian warplanes lost this year. Over the last half century, India has bought 976 MiG-21s, and over half are gone, mostly because of accidents.
https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htatrit/20111209.aspx
 
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Mig-21: the preferred aircraft of Ace Fighter Pilots.
I think that says a lot about the quality of your arguments right there...

You started this thread to talk about the latest Chinese stealth fighter, and when people here question your analysis, you somehow think that discussing a plane that first flew a half century ago somehow justifies your analysis of a plane that is currently under development.

The Mig21 may or may not have been a "good plane" in the past, but regardless of its quality, it says absolutely nothing about the current abilities of Russia or China to develop modern 5th generation fighters.
 
Just came up in my news feed:

https://www.wired.com/2016/11/china-j-20-fighter-jet/

"America’s F-22 Raptor can easily handle China’s new J-20 fighter jet, analysts say.US Air Force
Take the J-20 front canards, the elevator-like surfaces ahead of the wing. They’re no good for stealth flight, and they’re likely there to counteract an inherent instability in the design. The J-20 lacks the maneuverability and electronics, communications, and sensing capabilities of its US counterparts. “In head-to-head combat, the J-20 would lose in seconds,” Aboulafia says.
"
 
Fear the Drone...FEAR!

Meanwhile, in addition to the J-20, China has just unveiled its monster CH-5 Drone with a range of 12000 miles: the most powerful combat drone ever built. China says it will export this drone and liscence production of this drone to other countries.

https://www.rt.com/news/365290-china-export-drone-reaper-rival/

There will be a day when even the most backwards countries - like East Crapistan - will have an Air Force of killer drones. On that day, the world's smaller countries will be much safer from invasion from the more powerful countries, for a Drone Air Force can eiminate a lot of invaders!
 
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Fear the Drone...FEAR!

Meanwhile, in addition to the J-20, China has just unveiled its monster CH-5 Drone with a range of 12000 miles: the most powerful combat drone ever built. China says it will export this drone and liscence production of this drone to other countries.

https://www.rt.com/news/365290-china-export-drone-reaper-rival/

There will be a day when even the most backwards countries - like East Crapistan - will have an Air Force of killer drones. On that day, the world's smaller countries will be much safer from invasion from the more powerful countries, for a Drone Air Force can eiminate a lot of invaders!
:rolleyes: You really have no understanding of the Real World,m do you?
 
The F-16s don't have the fuel capacity to fight such a fight in the wide-open expansesof the western pacific. Likewise, the J-11s carry almost twice the fuel load of the F-15s, so the F-15s are at somewhat of a disadvantage, too (especially since the J-11 can out-manuever andout accelerate it).

Suggest you look up KC-10. Just curious: how many joint and combined air operations have you had to coordinate in real life? I've run a few.

From a Military point of view, China is a regional power at best.

From a political view, that's all that they have to be. ;)
 
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Suggest you look up KC-10. Just curious: how many joint and combined air operations have you had to coordinate in real life? I've run a few.



From a political view, that's all that they have to be. ;)

I know what it is. They are fat and slow and will be blown out of the sky (which appears to be one of the primary missions for the J-20 - which appears to be an interceptor first and foremost). So...there's all those F-15s, F-22s and F-35s and they way out in the Pacific and their Fuel plane has been shot out of the sky....now what? Deploy the life rafts and paddle home?

Dud, ya' don't need to directly shoot down the Fighter Jets in order to take them out - ya' just got to destroy their fat, slow tankers.

Hey...this isn't Iraq,or Serbia, or Grenada, or Panama, or Syria, or some other defenseless jerk-water country we're talking about...this is China. And they will fight back.
 
I know what it is. They are fat and slow and will be blown out of the sky (which appears to be one of the primary missions for the J-20 - which appears to be an interceptor first and foremost).
Err... not really.

In fact your very own reference given in the opening post doesn't even support that. In fact, it suggests that the J-20 was designed around an air-to-ground role (based on the size of its weapons bays, and certain censors the plane has.)

You see, this is one of the reasons you don't get much respect here... because you even ignore reference that you yourself give in favor of just making stuff up.

So...there's all those F-15s, F-22s and F-35s and they way out in the Pacific and their Fuel plane has been shot out of the sky....now what? Deploy the life rafts and paddle home?

Dud, ya' don't need to directly shoot down the Fighter Jets in order to take them out - ya' just got to destroy their fat, slow tankers.
Assuming of course that

- the Tankers are actually close enough to the combat for the J20 to reach, rather than being kept out of range

- The F22s/F35s/etc. haven't just refueled, meaning that they would have sufficient fuel on their own to take care of any J20s even if by some miracle the tankers were shot down

- The J20 works as promised, and doesn't fall out of the sky because they don't have the proper engine for it, or get detected miles away because China hasn't managed to build stealth planes with the right tolerances due to technology
 
Sure, Chinese military tech is crap... now. I suggest one recall the old Rat Pack movies in the 1950s, in which cheap Japanese cameras are often joked about. Later, it seemed the success of the Honda Civic only meant that Americans would buy tiny, el cheapo cars. Neither were taken seriously. Fast foward and, oops!

Here is Harvard Business School's 1975 seminal study that links profitability to market share, something the Japanese and now Chinese know well (as it is more applicable to manufacturing than to services). Get the volume and cash flow. Invest. Move up one rung in sophistication, from low end to eventually high end of market (Civic to Lexus transition). By the time anyone notices and stops guffawing at the "hapless orientals," they own your markets!

Just think: military R&D places a huge chunk of fixed cost at the beginning of a new system. Only by producing many units, at a lower variable cost, can that investment be spread out, or you get $10 billion airplanes. Now take the next logical step and ask yourself what happens if and when military plane sales are lost to cheaper but effective Chinese equipment....

Work it out. Study recent industrial history. Apply it to today. Guaranteed to erase smirks.
 
Err... not really.

In fact your very own reference given in the opening post doesn't even support that. In fact, it suggests that the J-20 was designed around an air-to-ground role (based on the size of its weapons bays, and certain censors the plane has.)

You see, this is one of the reasons you don't get much respect here... because you even ignore reference that you yourself give in favor of just making stuff up.


Assuming of course that

- the Tankers are actually close enough to the combat for the J20 to reach, rather than being kept out of range

- The F22s/F35s/etc. haven't just refueled, meaning that they would have sufficient fuel on their own to take care of any J20s even if by some miracle the tankers were shot down

- The J20 works as promised, and doesn't fall out of the sky because they don't have the proper engine for it, or get detected miles away because China hasn't managed to build stealth planes with the right tolerances due to technology

Plus, Tankers aren't bumbling around on their own, they are part of an integrated system, those aircraft they are there to refuel are their protection, Those AWACS and fighters and tankers and carriers and cruisers etc all work together.
 
Sure, Chinese military tech is crap... now. I suggest one recall the old Rat Pack movies in the 1950s, in which cheap Japanese cameras are often joked about. Later, it seemed the success of the Honda Civic only meant that Americans would buy tiny, el cheapo cars. Neither were taken seriously. Fast foward and, oops!

Here is Harvard Business School's 1975 seminal study that links profitability to market share, something the Japanese and now Chinese know well (as it is more applicable to manufacturing than to services). Get the volume and cash flow. Invest. Move up one rung in sophistication, from low end to eventually high end of market (Civic to Lexus transition). By the time anyone notices and stops guffawing at the "hapless orientals," they own your markets!

Just think: military R&D places a huge chunk of fixed cost at the beginning of a new system. Only by producing many units, at a lower variable cost, can that investment be spread out, or you get $10 billion airplanes. Now take the next logical step and ask yourself what happens if and when military plane sales are lost to cheaper but effective Chinese equipment....

Work it out. Study recent industrial history. Apply it to today. Guaranteed to erase smirks.

Which implies that the US or Japan or the EU or NATO countries aren't developing new systems.
 

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