China Flexes Military Muscle

[cullennz]

Situations change.
Once upon a time armies could be raised and equipped quickly.
Now you fight a war with what you have as it takes a long time to develop and equip.
Lost capability takes years to replace.

But why would China invade any one.

Why would there be a war?

Why spend billions on paranoia?

 

[3point14]

Examples from history. There's a good chance Argentina might have another pop at the Falklands.

They'd better get a wiggle on then cos they'll want to do it before the RN has a fully functioning, ultra-modern aircraft carrier to sail down there in.

 

[catsmate]

....OK.

And you think this would be China?

No. You didn't specify such. The PRC's main disputes are the ROC, India and Japan, along with Bhutan, Indonesia, Vietnam, the Philippines, and Malaysia.

 

[cullennz]

We know Trump is isolationist.

Personally think he is an idiot for it.

But China are hardly going to shoot their golden goose

 

[catsmate]

But why would China invade any one.

Resources. National pride. Internal diversion.
Study some history.

 

[cullennz]

Resources. National pride. Internal diversion.
Study some history.

You don't understand the Chinese. They aren't idiots

 

[cullennz]

No. You didn't specify such. The PRC's main disputes are the ROC, India and Japan, along with Bhutan, Indonesia, Vietnam, the Philippines, and Malaysia.

What?

Honestly do some reading

 

[cullennz]

Apparently the US needs to up its forces in case the Philippines attack with fire crackers

 

[Giz]

You don't understand the Chinese. They aren't idiots

Are germans idiots? Are Japanese idiots?

There's lots of examples of countries, with hindsight, starting idiotic wars.

China actually fits the template rather well. An authoritarian government, relying on economic growth and national pride for legitimacy. Then economic growth stalls and it has to rely more and more on tub thumping.

 

[Jules Galen]

Are germans idiots? Are Japanese idiots?
There's lots of examples of countries, with hindsight, starting idiotic wars.

China actually fits the template rather well. An authoritarian government, relying on economic growth and national pride for legitimacy. Then economic growth stalls and it has to rely more and more on tub thumping.

They were Empire Builders at one time: they thought it imperative to conquer and rule. But this description no longer applies to them. Nor does it apply to China, and history has proven it.

Now...does China intend to expand it's influence Globally? I believe so for a few reasons (I'll discuss two). One, there's the One-Belt-One-Road Strategic vision. This is a 40-50 year plan to build a trade network accros asia and the Indian Ocean to the Med and to Europe. It includes railways, ports, industrial centers, new cities, universities and even a blue-water navy to protect the shipping routes.

Two, there is the AIIB - the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank: the first real challenger to International Finance that the World Bank and IMF (basically American Institutions) have ever seen. The AIIB has the money, the leadership, the participation and the patience to make it a success. Plus, unlike the IMF and the World Bank, they do not tell other countries how to run their economies and politics.

The One-Belt-One-Road Initiative and the AIIB give China an Asian vision, a unified, long-term plan and, hence, an advantage. They should start bearing fruit within the next 10-20 years. And if this seems like a long time, then so? China is in it for the long run - this is a 4000 year-old culture that thinks very-long term. This is a culture that was peaking before Rome....was Rome Greece...was Greece, or even Israel...was.

Last, China has taken a few initiatives in South America and had definetley taken initiatives in Africa. China has built universities, railways and ports in Africa and intends to get raw materials from Africa but also gain a new market for their goods. Meanwhile, South America is....South America. Making headway with these guys is like trying to push a rope...but if anyone is patient enough to do it, then I'd figure it was the Chinese.

Now...none of this is indicative of a country that intends to project hard power into other people's affairs. In fact, it looks like China is trying to becomes the world's trading partner, not it's military master.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Jules, is that one of your serious posts or is it another Poe?

 

[Giz]

Jules, is that one of your serious posts or is it another Poe?

Where can I find those? Between bigfoot and nessie?

 

[Ziggurat]

The AIIB has the money, the leadership, the participation and the patience to make it a success.

Does it have the leadership to make a success? That remains to be seen. China's domestic banking situation is a lurking catastrophe of bad debt because of political corruption. Will their international banking be any better? Maybe, but that's hardly guaranteed.

Plus, unlike the IMF and the World Bank, they do not tell other countries how to run their economies and politics.

We'll see how long that lasts.

The One-Belt-One-Road Initiative and the AIIB give China an Asian vision, a unified, long-term plan and, hence, an advantage. They should start bearing fruit within the next 10-20 years.

Just in time for their looming demographic crisis to start picking up steam. How'd that long-term planning pan out?

Meanwhile, South America is....South America. Making headway with these guys is like trying to push a rope...but if anyone is patient enough to do it, then I'd figure it was the Chinese.

China pumped billions into Venezuela. And they aren't patient enough.

Now...none of this is indicative of a country that intends to project hard power into other people's affairs.

Building military bases in disputed waters is.

In fact, it looks like China is trying to becomes the world's trading partner, not it's military master.

Trade dominance is easier for them to do than military dominance. Why should we take a trade-centered approach as an indicator of anything other than that fact? It certainly doesn't mean that they won't use military dominance where they can (such as, again, the South China Sea).

 

[Jules Galen]

Does it have the leadership to make a success? That remains to be seen. China's domestic banking situation is a lurking catastrophe of bad debt because of political corruption. Will their international banking be any better? Maybe, but that's hardly guaranteed.

We'll see how long that lasts.

Just in time for their looming demographic crisis to start picking up steam. How'd that long-term planning pan out?

China pumped billions into Venezuela. And they aren't patient enough.

Building military bases in disputed waters is.

Trade dominance is easier for them to do than military dominance. Why should we take a trade-centered approach as an indicator of anything other than that fact? It certainly doesn't mean that they won't use military dominance where they can (such as, again, the South China Sea).

Just remember, China has three very important things America does not have:

1. A Government that is not controlled by multi-national corporations.

2. A Long-Range Plan.

3. More Money.

China is not going away. They been here for 4000 years. Despite numerous setbacks, they were the world's strongest culture for nearly 2000 years. And they are coming back.

Now, you can stamp your feet, screw your face up into the funny look and call China bad names, but that's not going to change a thing. Just remember: Egypt rose and fell - and it stayed down. Rome was the "Eternal City"...and it fell - and it stayed down. China has fallen several times....and it always comes back. Well, China is back and it intends to be #1 again.

Deal.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Rome is still there, arguably the Roman Empire is still as influential and present in Europe as the old Empire is in modern China.

Was your last post a Poe? it's hard to tell.

 

[Jules Galen]

Rime is still there, arguably the Roman Empire is still as influential and present in Europe as the old Empire is in modern China.
Was your last post a Poe? it's hard to tell.

No. The Ghost of ancient Rome is dead in Europe. It ideologically died with Hitler and Mussolini.

Now...whole it can be argued that the structure of the Catholic Church is a facsimile of the Ancient Roman Court, the Church has lost the fascist drive that made Rome....Rome.

 

[catsmate]

You don't understand the Chinese. They aren't idiots

What?

Honestly do some reading

Are germans idiots? Are Japanese idiots?

There's lots of examples of countries, with hindsight, starting idiotic wars.

China actually fits the template rather well. An authoritarian government, relying on economic growth and national pride for legitimacy. Then economic growth stalls and it has to rely more and more on tub thumping.

An absolutely perfect candidate for an attempt to divert attention from internal stresses by attemping a diversionary foreign adventure. Just look at the internal Chinese problems; greater perception of corruption, desire for a better standard of living, burgeoning interest in democracy (as in this weeks events in HK), ethnic strife et cetera.

Remember the words of von Phleve:
"What this country needs is a short victorious war to stem the tide of revolution".

 

[Jules Galen]

An absolutely perfect candidate for an attempt to divert attention from internal stresses by attemping a diversionary foreign adventure. Just look at the internal Chinese problems; greater perception of corruption, desire for a better standard of living, burgeoning interest in democracy (as in this weeks events in HK), ethnic strife et cetera.
Remember the words of von Phleve:
"What this country needs is a short victorious war to stem the tide of revolution".

Gawd! Are you serious?

 

[catsmate]

Gawd! Are you serious?

Ah, so you know nothing about China.

 

[Andy_Ross]

No. The Ghost of ancient Rome is dead in Europe. It ideologically died with Hitler and Mussolini.

Now...whole it can be argued that the structure of the Catholic Church is a facsimile of the Ancient Roman Court, the Church has lost the fascist drive that made Rome....Rome.

Eutopean law is Roman Law, we use their calendar and their language, we use their architectural style and still sudy the histories snd literature.