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Split Thread Western culture, values and race

Darat said:
I take it then your position is that universal suffrage is insignificant, or that you don't think it is part of "western values".
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I think it's part of a history of evolving legal rights, inspired by Western philosophy and cultural mores.

Are you seriously not getting this? It seems so implausible.
 
Giz said:
I think it's part of a history of evolving legal rights, inspired by Western philosophy and cultural mores.
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Problem with that is you have to accept then that all the "bad" things in the past were also "inspired by Western philosophy and cultural mores". People not having the vote - that can be traced back millennia in "western philosophy and cultural mores", especially for women, it is precisely because we are not bound by past "western philosophy and cultural mores" that we now have universal suffrage.

Giz said:
Are you seriously not getting this? It seems so implausible.
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Your argument would seem to be that there are some objective platonic "western philosophy and cultural mores" that have come to fruition right now today in our civilization and therefore there can never now be any change without it going backwards.

My view is that the evidence shows that "western values and cultural mores" have forever been changing, I would go further and say that the culture of the UK a 100 years ago would be alien to all of us born in the later half of the 20th and start of 21st centuries. The changes in my view are sometimes for what I consider to be better, sometimes for what I consider to be for the worse.
 
Darat said:
My view is that the evidence shows that "western values and cultural mores" have forever been changing, I would go further and say that the culture of the UK a 100 years ago would be alien to all of us born in the later half of the 20th and start of 21st centuries.
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Do you really think so? That's rather sad.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
This thread has been split from What if the "wrong" person wins in November? where the discussion about Western culture and values was woefully off topic.
Posted By: Agatha


Not sure if you've all seen this image or not:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvLxFW9UkAUkMr3.jpg

It shows how the results would be if only POC voted, if only Whites voted, etc.

Given that this nation was founded by White men who specifically laid out who could attain citizenship and who could vote, and given that at every step of the way, the legitimate inheritors of this nation (Whites) have vehemently opposed (the majority of them have, that is) transformational nonwhite immigration such as what the 1965 act allowed, and what has been allowed by lax border enforcement and the constitutionally invalid birthright citizenship determination by, if memory serves, one judge who wasn't even on the supreme court... etc. etc. etc...

It is entirely accurate to say that a Clinton victory can ONLY be the result of rigging in the sense that the globalist anti-whites have quite deliberately sought to replace and displace the actual citizenry of this nation in order to get their way and rest control of said nation from those its founders and majority from its inception even to today have always intended to have control of it.

This is an act of war and conquest and can legitimately, morally be responded to as such.
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What role have the Jews played in all of this?
 
Giz said:
Do you really think so? That's rather sad.
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Certainly I think what we view as "western philosophy and cultural mores" have changed and are changing, I've been using one example - universal suffrage - as an example of a huge change. There are many more.

No idea why that is "sad", it makes me very happy that we are not bound by the past and can make changes for the better.
 
Darat said:
Certainly I think what we view as "western philosophy and cultural mores" have changed and are changing, I've been using one example - universal suffrage - as an example of a huge change. There are many more.

No idea why that is "sad", it makes me very happy that we are not bound by the past and can make changes for the better.
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I agree with your assertion that the last hundred years is pretty big culture shift. I don't know how utterly discombobulating it would be to a time traveler, and which direction would be more confusing, but I think people don't realize just how much "western values" or whatever have changed over the last century.
 
The OP makes more sense if you replace white race with white elite.

Pretty much all that's changed for poor white people is that it's no longer so acceptable to hate on ethnics.
 
Navigator said:
...potentially at least...


Racial identity is a biological nonsense, says Reith lecturer ~ theguardian.com
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I like these two points very much:
Appiah’s lecture explores the notion that two black-skinned people may share similar genes for skin colour, but a white-skinned person and a black-skinned person may share a similar gene that makes them brilliant at playing the piano. So why, he asks, have we decided that one is the core of our identity and the other is a lesser trait?

“How race works is actually pretty local and specific; what it means to be black in New York is completely different from what it means to be black in Accra, or even in London,” he explains. “And yet people believe it means roughly the same thing everywhere. Race does nothing for us.
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I haven't read the thread this is split from so I don't know if this has been covered, but do we know whether or not the information in the graphic linked in the OP is actually accurate?
 
No, and it really doesn't matter as it's functionally incorrect anyway. Fact checking a dog turd just confirms its made of poop.
 
Fair enough. I just thought it odd that it had sparked a conversation without anybody saying "is that actually true, though?"
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Fair enough. I just thought it odd that it had sparked a conversation without anybody saying "is that actually true, though?"
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I believe that says more about the group consensus on the OP member than anything else. He has earned so little respect we don't even bother to fact check him; personally I assume any graphic or "fact" he posts is wrong, generated by trolls, and probably carrying germs.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Fair enough. I just thought it odd that it had sparked a conversation without anybody saying "is that actually true, though?"
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It fits with everything else I've read. Trump is most popular with less educated, rural, white, males.

The maps themselves are unremarkable, so no one felt a need to fact check them. The conclusions drawn by Skeptic Tank from that data are somewhat more problematic.
 
Giz said:
I think it's part of a history of evolving legal rights, inspired by Western philosophy and cultural mores.

Are you seriously not getting this? It seems so implausible.
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I get it, but I also get Darat's point.

I believe "western values" since the reformation has created and grown an ability to self-criticize and self-correct that has led to an expansion of rights, privileges and improved standards of living for the western world.

At the same time, we're not perfect and just decades ago we, as a civilization, embraced values that seem appalling to us now, and quite frankly some of our "western values" are still appalling today.

One point of view looks at it from a macro scale, and sees favorable comparisons with other civilizations around the world and throughout history. It sees the direction we've come from and the direction we're going to and says it's good and preferable to the alternatives.

But there is also another point of view that looks at our values on a micro scale, that sees all the people who are marginalized and disenfranchised, all the people who are suffering, and some of the terrible militaristic things we do in our clumsy efforts to make things better, and sees a lot of room for improvement, and also a lot of potential for losing ground and reverting to previous barbarism.

I think both points of view are valid. We should look on our civilization on a macro level and appreciate its good aspects and honor the imperfect people who have advanced our understanding and practices. We should also encourage others to copy the best of western values to make the same improvements for their own peoples.

At the same time, we should also recognize our imperfections. That recently won rights are still opposed by large portions of our populations and could reversed, and also that there is still huge areas where improvement is not only possible, but necessary and long overdue.

In my opinion both points of view are both legitimate and necessary.
 
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