In some people it seems more a desire to willfully nit-pick in a pathetic attempt to ridicule an argument or person.
Did my post #197 in any way help your desire for accuracy?
Did my post #197 in any way help your desire for accuracy?
Thor 2
Philosopher
I agree. It's almost like some are trying to define their disbelief as somehow superior to others disbelief.
Tut, tut. That should be "lack of belief", or "no belief", or "unbelief". Don't you know "disbelief" is a dirty word that's a deliberate and nefarious attempt to pigeonhole people.
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
...and for not letting some other with an agenda, presume to define our own, clearly understood, self-definition.
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
Tut, tut. That should be "lack of belief", or "no belief", or "unbelief". Don't you know "disbelief" is a dirty word that's a deliberate and nefarious attempt to pigeonhole people.
One wonders if you, personally, are up to the onus of demonstrating where such has been said.
If a person chooses to define their lack of relationship with 'god'-concepts as "disbelief", then that is, in fact, the correct word to use--for that person. If some other person chooses to self-define and self-understand with a different term, the distinguished term is the correct term to use for the second individual...and so on.
Where you, personally, do err in your arguments is the point at which you presume to define others' beliefs in term which they, specifically, repudiate.
Other than that, you're doing a splendid job of which you should be proud.
Just imagine if any other discussion, objective or subjective, was forced to operate under this level of hair splitting.
Ted: Bob has the mail come yet?
Bob: Well I don't know Ted. Do you mean do I know if the mail has come yet? Do I believe the mail has come yet? Do I believe the mail hasn't come yet?
or
Ted: Hey Bob do you think the Saints will make it to playoffs this year?
Bob: Woah... woah... we need to clarify this first. Are you asking if I think the Saints will make the playoffs or if I don't believe the Saints won't make the playoffs?
Ted: Bob has the mail come yet?
Bob: Well I don't know Ted. Do you mean do I know if the mail has come yet? Do I believe the mail has come yet? Do I believe the mail hasn't come yet?
or
Ted: Hey Bob do you think the Saints will make it to playoffs this year?
Bob: Woah... woah... we need to clarify this first. Are you asking if I think the Saints will make the playoffs or if I don't believe the Saints won't make the playoffs?
Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
Personally, I believe the reason why so many people disagree with the way the poll is presented isn't actually because of the categories, but because there isn't a clear purpose to it. Most polls are created to accomplish two things: Learn something about the audience, and/or to prove something.
For example, if I wanted prove there are no girls on the Internet, I could construct a poll that asks for people's gender and age. It wouldn't matter how many categories I provided, as long as there was one for Female/under <arbitrary cut-off age>.
If I wanted to learn what the sex distribution of a particular forum happened to be, I could construct a poll that had two options: Female and Male. If people argued about the limitation of choices, or explained the choice they would have preferred, I would actually learn even more from that discussion when added to the poll numbers.
Judging by the way this thread has gone, it sounds like the OP wanted to prove something, and several posters assumed that they wanted to learn something.
In the future, I recommend being clear in the OP as to the purpose of a poll, especially when you do not choose to provide an "Other" option, or want only answers, and not discussion.
For example, if I wanted prove there are no girls on the Internet, I could construct a poll that asks for people's gender and age. It wouldn't matter how many categories I provided, as long as there was one for Female/under <arbitrary cut-off age>.
If I wanted to learn what the sex distribution of a particular forum happened to be, I could construct a poll that had two options: Female and Male. If people argued about the limitation of choices, or explained the choice they would have preferred, I would actually learn even more from that discussion when added to the poll numbers.
Judging by the way this thread has gone, it sounds like the OP wanted to prove something, and several posters assumed that they wanted to learn something.
In the future, I recommend being clear in the OP as to the purpose of a poll, especially when you do not choose to provide an "Other" option, or want only answers, and not discussion.
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
I recall a quotation from Peter de Vries that the ultimate proof of God's greatness is that he need not exist to save us. I think whether he exists or not just gets under people's fingernails. Take the number of participants here, and multiply by two, and you'll be closing in.
Ted: I'm not running a poll Bob. A simple "yes", "no" or "I don't know" answer is all that's required. If I was running a poll however I would offer several choices from which you could pick the most appropriate one for yourself.
You can't run a poll by offering an unsplit hair of no choices. Poll – Do you think I'm handsome? Options – Yes.
But you don't need to run a poll that's so split it covers all the niceties of the possible meanings of words and possible ways everyone uses them. And it would be a lifetimes labour to write options for such a poll, and cast a vote for that matter.
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The OP says - “This poll asks “What” not “Why”, so there is no requirement to explain your vote”.
I also posted . . .
Isn't it obvious that a poll that asks “What type are you?” simply wants to know what type you are? In other words to “Learn something about the audience “. Why the thread ”sounds like the OP wanted to prove something“ is merely because some posters have made unfounded and incorrect accusations that the OP (me) does want to prove something. I wonder what it is they think I'm trying to prove?
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Please give an example of what options you would provide for a poll that wants to find out what type of theist or atheist people are . . .
Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
To be honest, a person who starts a poll that states "What Gender Are You?", lists two options, then gets into a slappy fight with anyone who claims to not fit either option, doesn't really come across as someone who wanted to learn anything from their audience, but wanted to prove a point about their audience.
If I did want to learn what type of theist or atheist posts here, I would probably begin by wording the title "Which category do you most agree with?", put in an option for "None of the above", and ask the respondents to describe their beliefs, or lack thereof, in their own words. Your behavior in telling people what option they should have picked suggests that you didn't need to learn, you already knew!
If I did want to learn what type of theist or atheist posts here, I would probably begin by wording the title "Which category do you most agree with?", put in an option for "None of the above", and ask the respondents to describe their beliefs, or lack thereof, in their own words. Your behavior in telling people what option they should have picked suggests that you didn't need to learn, you already knew!
Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
To put it more concisely, when I want to learn about others' beliefs, I prefer to give them the option to enlighten me with their own words, rather than force them to use mine. 
The Big Dog
Unregistered
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2007
- Messages
- 29,742
That is not how polls work around here.
I was perfectly content with the poll, not sure why everyone is so up in arms.
Hokulele
Deleterious Slab of Damnation
How do polls work around here, then? If they aren't meant to learn or prove something, what is their intention?
Granted, in other parts of the forum, they can be meant to purely entertain...
I didn't respond to the poll, as I didn't see the point in doing so.
Pup
Philosopher
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2004
- Messages
- 6,679
In casual conversation that involves religion, all I care is that somebody knows I'm an atheist and/or I'm one of those people who doesn't believe in god.
If someone asks me to pick a category, though, I assume they care that I pick the correct one as much as I do, so I take more care. In this poll, I asked about the difference between think and believe, because they seemed the same to me.
If someone asks me to pick a category, though, I assume they care that I pick the correct one as much as I do, so I take more care. In this poll, I asked about the difference between think and believe, because they seemed the same to me.
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
To put it more concisely, when I want to learn about others' beliefs, I prefer to give them the option to enlighten me with their own words, rather than force them to use mine.
...and NOT call clear definitions of subtle distinctions "nit-picking"...
(Good to see you again, Hokulele!)
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
"If you are willing, please describe what you, personally, mean by "atheist", making any distinctions among similar, but often-confused or misused terms necessary to clarify your personal definition."
Slowvehicle
Membership Drive , Co-Ordinator,, Russell's Antin
What you see here is not, in my opinion, "up in arms"...simply subtle and nuanced responses to the same-ol' same-ol' (apparent) "gotcha".