• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Merged 2014 Hugo awards.

theprestige said:
I think the Hugos were doomed when the SJWs began advocating Correct Thought over Good Writing, and began persecuting dissenters. The Puppy slate is purely reactionary. Now that the Hugos have been politicized, there's no going back.
Click to expand...
Given that none of these things have actually happened what exactly is your point?
I await your evidence for your claims that:
  • SJWs advocate "Correct Thought" over "Good Writing"
  • SJWs have been "persecuting dissenters"
  • the puppy slate is a reaction to these
Actual evidence please, not just the rantings of a few dissatisfied losers.

theprestige said:
Putting rules in place won't solve the problem, it will just shift the sociopolitical slapfight to the arena of which rules are most advantageous to which faction.
Click to expand...
Evidence?

theprestige said:
Unless there's a Worldcon Ur-Faction that can step in; make it absolutely clear that electioneering is not allowed, that Good Writing is the only criteria, and that members should vote their conscience no more no less; and somehow enforce this; the Hugos are pointless now, except as a measure of e-peen for whichever faction happens to have the upper hand in the slap fight that year.
Click to expand...
That's what is being generally advocated, perhaps you should do some study on the topic?

Floyt said:
Really. I'm getting the impression that the downhill slide began when a blob of of right-wing bad writers started an attempt to whine their way into winning an award that a discerning readership wasn't willing to give them for their crap. Or maybe mobilizing that resentful proportion of readers that believes that calling people "SJWs" is in some way an insult was the trick. Whichever, I see that now that the damage is starting to become apparent, it's time to get going with the blame-shifting, eh?
Click to expand...
Yeah, basically it started when Correia didn't win and had a bit of a fit. Since then it's been imaginary "SJW" conspiracies and VD's self-publicity. Plus the anti-Scalzi hysteria.
 
dudalb said:
The line between science fiction and fantasy is sometimes very thin.
Click to expand...

I agree that it can be. But there are some works which are clearly fantasy and would never dream of trying to be anything other. There are things which are SF and would never dream of being fantasy.

Where the line is exactly drawn is itself interesting...

Wudang said:
Any sufficiently advanced science fiction is indistinguishable from fantasy.
Click to expand...

...indeed. And as Clarke was one of the Holy Trinity along with Asimov and Wells, it's apt that you read from the Holy Scripture on what distinguishes woo from Ze Science! ;)
 
angrysoba said:
I agree that it can be. But there are some works which are clearly fantasy and would never dream of trying to be anything other. There are things which are SF and would never dream of being fantasy.

Where the line is exactly drawn is itself interesting...



...indeed. And as Clarke was one of the Holy Trinity along with Asimov and Wells, it's apt that you read from the Holy Scripture on what distinguishes woo from Ze Science! ;)
Click to expand...

Robert Heinlein says Hi!
 
I think the Hugos were doomed when the SJWs began advocating Correct Thought over Good Writing, and began persecuting dissenters.
Click to expand...

Can you give some examples - in your own words - of "Correct Thought over Good Writing" winning out? Or of dissenters being persecuted by some cabal? (Heck, I go to Wiscon: I think I'd have heard of that)

Now if you mean that you disagreed with particular works or people receiving the award in a given year - well, I disagree with about 2/3 of the awards in the past decade.
The Puppy slate is purely reactionary.
Click to expand...

Couldn't have said it better myself :D

If you need data for recent years, enter <year> Hugo statistics in your favorite search engine: you'll get a breakdown of votes, often including all nominations - for that year.
 
And the pathetic puppyboys have made it to the WSJ.
The Culture Wars Invade Science Fiction

Mr. Scalzi likens the Puppies’ campaigns to the backlash that women and minorities have faced in other geek-culture arenas—notably “Gamergate,” the videogamers’ campaign widely associated with threats against feminist videogame critics.
Click to expand...
 
And in a fascinating and bizarre twist some of the puppyboy leaders are now attempting to organise a boycott of Tor (the publisher, imprint of Macmillan).
:rolleyes::confused::covereyes:boggled:
 
catsmate said:
And in a fascinating and bizarre twist some of the puppyboy leaders are now attempting to organise a boycott of Tor (the publisher, imprint of Macmillan).
:rolleyes::confused::covereyes:boggled:
Click to expand...

'm gonna guess because TOR doesn't accept their incompetent, incontinent drivel as publishable/saleable writing. (Subtle hint: this is not really a guess)
 
It's a bit more complicated. An editor at Tor made some comments about the puppies a month ago on her personal Facebook and VD stirred up the faux outrage. Mainly it's down to VD hating John Scalzi, and I especially his US $3.4 million deal with Tor.
Pathetic really.
Though you're right the inability of some authors to be published (on quality grounds) is also an issue. He'll even Baen wouldn't publish Kratman's latest rubbish.
 
catsmate said:
And the pathetic puppyboys have made it to the WSJ.
The Culture Wars Invade Science Fiction
Click to expand...


Your selected quotation is interesting.

Mr. Scalzi likens the Puppies’ campaigns to the backlash that women and minorities have faced in other geek-culture arenas—notably “Gamergate,” the videogamers’ campaign widely associated with threats against feminist videogame critics.
Click to expand...


Someone should inform Mr. Scalzi that he doesn't seem to know much about what gamergate actually is if he's just going to trot out the spurious "it's about harassing women and minorities in gaming" meme. A meme that's been disproved with facts many times.

Consequently, if he gets his basic facts wrong on gamergate, then I wouldn't put much stock in his views on the Sad Puppies thing being accurate either.
 
Corsair 115 said:
Your selected quotation is interesting.




Someone should inform Mr. Scalzi that he doesn't seem to know much about what gamergate actually is if he's just going to trot out the spurious "it's about harassing women and minorities in gaming" meme. A meme that's been disproved with facts many times.

Consequently, if he gets his basic facts wrong on gamergate, then I wouldn't put much stock in his views on the Sad Puppies thing being accurate either.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:
You might want to check on his past commentary on gamergate, he get's it quite right despite those who try and cover over the reality.
 
catsmate said:
:rolleyes:
You might want to check on his past commentary on gamergate, he get's it quite right despite those who try and cover over the reality.
Click to expand...


Ah, so you're bought into the misinformation as well?

(It must be inconvenient that the detailed WAM report stated that only 12% of all the harassing tweets it looked at could be tied to gamergate. It must likewise be inconvenient that of the nearly 10,000 Twitter accounts on the gg-autoblocker only 65 of them could be tied to harassing or abusive tweets. But these are just facts. One shouldn't let facts stand in the way of the meme.)

In regards to the Sad Puppies, there was a Google Hangout done featuring among its guests the founder of it, Larry Correia, and supporters Brad Torgersen and Sarah Hoyt. During the course of the hangout all three seemed to me to be entirely reasonable in the presentation of their side, and certainly didn't come across as being folks engaged in a "backlash" against "women and minorities" in "geek-culture arenas".

But the video of the hangout was posted to YouTube some three months ago, so maybe things have changed since then.

Here's the link to the video, for those interested in hearing directly from Larry Correia, Brad Torgersen, and Sarah Hoyt themselves.

 
catsmate said:
Sign. There's a thread dedicated to gamergate kindly take your opinions there.
Click to expand...


YOU brought it up in this thread by the portion of the quote YOU cited. If you raise the topic, it's fair game to be commented upon. Don't like the topic, don't raise it.

Also, facts > opinions. Just a reminder.
 
Sasquan has set a record for Hugo votes at * 5,950. The results will be announced on the 22nd, with live streaming.
Interestingly the physical vote isn't dead, 0.6% of votes were posted in.
 
For anyone interested Sasquan has posted the committee reports that are going to the business meeting.
Including the long awaited (the process started in 1991) report on the idea of a YA Hugo award, as well as other proposed variations in the categories, and the nominations and voting processes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom