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My terrifying experiences - skeptical perspective much appreciated

truthlover said:
.... I really don't see how an encounter with a sexually mature individual 3 years younger than myself is in any way 'concerning'.

No I don't feel guilty for my homosexuality. I was worried these experiences may mean I should be?? My parents do know.
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It is the Divine Punishment for turning that poor young man gay!

(Or even worse: For calling people "dolt" some time in the future!)
 
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Hi Peter i, only because they responded to my post in a glib, accusatory and offensive manner. But I do apologise, as the poster in question did post a considered response afterward, which I do appreciate. You can't let people treat you as they please without pushing back ;)
 
Did we not recently have a thread similar to this one where somebody thought they had been tossed into a fire by a demon but they were not burned?

This thread seems much like that one. I cannot remember who started that one, however.
 
truthlover said:
I'm also interested that people are linking suspectability to schizophrenia to these dreams. Is there any evidence that such horrible dreams precede onset? I think I'm out of the woods of so as I have not had these dreams for almost 1 year now, however thinkng back they still make me wonder (hence me posting about them now).
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There is some evidence that sleep paralysis is more common amongst people diagnosed with schizophrenia, but most cases are not linked to psychosis. I think many people are unaware of the range of things that can cause hallucinations, and the similarity between hallucinations associated with drugs, mental illness and other causes.

There have been cases reported of people being diagnosed with a delusional disorder after experiencing sleep paralysis, which subsequently stopped after the sleep paralysis ended. The most likely explanation for this is that the perceptual experiences are so strange that people feel compelled to seek explanations that to other people may seem delusional. Once the unusual experience stops there is no longer the same motivation to consider extraordinary explanations.

Beliefs that numbers or events have special significance or are mysteriously connected in some way is associated with psychosis, but also with common everyday beliefs that a large percentage of the population hold. If you have had strange perceptual experiences these will produce a bias to interpret other events to fit with the explanation. Therefore events that you would not otherwise have even noticed may appear to take on a special significance.
 
truthlover,

There are a couple of things you have been experiencing. The first is night terrors. That explains the bad dreams and the feeling you're awake then reawakening to experience yet more terrifying visions etc. This comes from the subconscious. There's something bugging you and you're keeping it inside.

The "evil presence" you feel is likely the onset of a panic or anxiety attack and that's the second thing going on. It sounds as if you are prone to anxiety or panic attacks and their triggers. This feeling of an "evil presence" is in no way related to you having had prayed or talked to Satan, or the Maytag repairman for that matter. Neither are coming for you. (The Maytag guy may show up if you call for an appliance repair though).

Your chosen lifestyle is very stressful on you whether you recognize it or not. From your brief background description, it seems you understand that you may be prone to think about things like Satan, demons, possession and the like. Remember, it's your mind where the danger lurks, nothing you're concerned with can touch you.

Now, what to do.
Obviously you first need to talk with your family Doctor about the anxiety or panic attacks you are feeling and try to determine the trigger. He may prescribe some medication to reduce your stress level or prescribe something to take if you feel the onset of an attack. Have a check up. Make sure everything is as it should be. Increased stress can cause elevated blood pressure, increased heart rate etc.

The most important self help thing you can do is to ask yourself the question. Is there anything traumatic that may have occurred when I was younger that is still bothering me? If you have something you're uncomfortable with, the best way to be rid of it is to talk about it with a trusted friend/family member, or a trained professional.

The lifestyle you have chosen is one of considerable stress. Not only are you concerned with interactions of others but you must also contend with early teachings from childhood that may conflict with your lifestyle choice or decision. Again, talk with your family Doctor and do not let yourself become another statistic.
Chris B.
 
truthlover said:
Hi barehl, thanks for that great breakdown. So you're saying your eyes can be completely open, moving and perceiving the room, but your body paralysed, AND on top of this you can 'dream' up the content and goings-on in the room you're percieving? Pretty much like an extremely vivid hallucination but you're paralysed and technically 'sleeping'?
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And that is why those experiences are so realistic and frightening. I've had a few, and unlike a normal dream where you, for example, know it's your room but it doesn't really look like your room and the appearance keeps changing, you really are seeing the room, exactly as it is, with scary stuff added.
 
truthlover said:
Hi Peter i, only because they responded to my post in a glib, accusatory and offensive manner. But I do apologise, as the poster in question did post a considered response afterward, which I do appreciate. You can't let people treat you as they please without pushing back ;)
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Did you READ the MA you signed?
 
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ChrisBFRPKY said:
truthlover,

There are a couple of things you have been experiencing. The first is night terrors. That explains the bad dreams and the feeling you're awake then reawakening to experience yet more terrifying visions etc. This comes from the subconscious. There's something bugging you and you're keeping it inside.

The "evil presence" you feel is likely the onset of a panic or anxiety attack and that's the second thing going on. It sounds as if you are prone to anxiety or panic attacks and their triggers. This feeling of an "evil presence" is in no way related to you having had prayed or talked to Satan, or the Maytag repairman for that matter. Neither are coming for you. (The Maytag guy may show up if you call for an appliance repair though).

Your chosen lifestyle is very stressful on you whether you recognize it or not. From your brief background description, it seems you understand that you may be prone to think about things like Satan, demons, possession and the like. Remember, it's your mind where the danger lurks, nothing you're concerned with can touch you.

Now, what to do.
Obviously you first need to talk with your family Doctor about the anxiety or panic attacks you are feeling and try to determine the trigger. He may prescribe some medication to reduce your stress level or prescribe something to take if you feel the onset of an attack. Have a check up. Make sure everything is as it should be. Increased stress can cause elevated blood pressure, increased heart rate etc.

The most important self help thing you can do is to ask yourself the question. Is there anything traumatic that may have occurred when I was younger that is still bothering me? If you have something you're uncomfortable with, the best way to be rid of it is to talk about it with a trusted friend/family member, or a trained professional.

The lifestyle you have chosen is one of considerable stress. Not only are you concerned with interactions of others but you must also contend with early teachings from childhood that may conflict with your lifestyle choice or decision. Again, talk with your family Doctor and do not let yourself become another statistic.
Chris B.
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Hi Chris, thanks for your response. Perhaps there was something bugging me when I was having those reoccurring nightmares, I do not remember the particulars of what else was happening at the time.

I see a lot of sense in your post, thanks for that. That was something I was thinking of, is that the reoccurring dream / nightmare repetition feeds on itself and causes more fear, which in turn causes more intense nightmares. It is compounding.

I do have a predisposition to anxiety, however I have become much more adept at recognising the causes / triggers in everyday life and minimising them. I have not had these dreams for perhaps 8 months or so, so I feel like things in this regard are getting better. If I get the smallest inkling they are going to occur again, I will contact a medical professional, because they are definitely not something I want in my life.

Anyways, thanks all!
 
truthlover said:
Hi Beiz,
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That's "Belz...", or "master", please.

In all seriousness, what would the probability be. I'm curious.
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Very good. I just told you.

I have a predetermined nothing
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Of course you have. Your conclusion is not rational. There is no reason to believe demons are involved unless you are predisposed to do so, either culturally or otherwise.
 
truthlover said:
Hi all,
...I have since for the last year or so ceased to have such dreams, and thus I've defaulted back to the world-view I've long been most comfortable with - agnostic, secular materialism. Nonetheless it has been playing on my mind again as of late, these unresolved, experiences, and I want to know what to make of them. I feel as though something doesn't want me to post this post either.

What is everyone's opinion on all of this? Surely you can all see how improbable all this is by materialistic chance alone, and the real kicker for me was that receipt. What are the chances the one time I go grocery shopping with this mindset that I get the number of the beast on a physical receipt in the middle of the day??

Your thoughts and input would be much appreciated.

Thanks all,
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First, reading the description of your first experience, that has all the CLASSIC elements of ASP (Awareness during Sleep Paralysis)

People keep referring it to as just "sleep paralysis", but that's not exactly correct; we all experience sleep paralysis, every night, when we dream. We just aren't aware of it, because, well, we're asleep and dreaming. The function of the temporary paralysis is to stop you from acting out your dreams, and possibly injuring yourself.

A portion of people experience ASP, where they wake up part of the way, so that they think they are awake, except the paralysis lingers a while, instead of going away immediately when you wake. You thus become "aware" of the paralysis.

This state, especially if you don't know what ASP is, and thus don't know what is going on, can be very frightening, and your mind searches for an explanation for the paralysis. You are not fully awake, even though you may open your eyes, and in this state, you are extremely prone to all sorts of hallucinations, as your mind races to make sense of what is happening.

The material for those hallucinations comes from what you know about - and you don't even have to actively believe in that, it seems to be enough that you find it a frightening possibility, even if improbable.

What you described in your experience, a "demonic" being sitting on your chest, pinning you down or strangling you, is one of the common types of hallucinations that get reported in ASP. Back when I was younger, I experienced ASP quite a few times, and researched it, and associated hallucinations, pretty thoroughly.

By the end of that research (and you can read more about it in the "Welcome" forum, in the thread "Welcome new Members! Introduce yourselves here!", where I wrote about my experiences in a discussion with another new member), I became a skeptic. In studying the phenomena, I even learned to induce the ASP state on purpose; though it was very difficult, and success was sporadic.

Even after I'd concluded that there was nothing supernatural connected to this phenomena, I had read up on a type of historical ASP hallucination called "old hag attack", where people would hallucinate an old witch strangling them and muttering incomprehensible curses, and guess what I experienced the next night?

As I experienced the hallucination, initially my heart was racing, but I realized what was going on, so I just "disbelieved" the hallucination, noticed that I wasn't being strangled, but was in fact holding my breath, took a breath, and the hallucination vanished.

As you come to understand what the mind is capable of creating, in the form of hallucinations in that state, you gain both an appreciation of what an amazing thing this lump of gray matter between your ears is, and an appreciation that what you see, may not always accurately reflect what is there. With this understanding, the ASP experiences, and any associated nightmares become less frightening too, and you can learn to consciously control the hallucinations, direct them to less frightening paths.

Nowadays ASP experiences have become increasingly rare for me. I think the last one I had was a couple of years ago. And when I do have them, any hallucinations now reflect the fact that I don't find the least bit of plausibility in the supernatural anymore; now if I hallucinate something, it's something more mundane, like burglars having come to my apartment and immobilized me somehow. As that sort of hallucination is more realistically something that could happen, it's harder to recognize as a hallucination, though any time I wake up immobile, I am now predisposed to disbelieve anything I experience.

One thing that seems to increase the chance of ASP is sleeping on your back. I don't think anyone knows why this is, but if it becomes a problem for you again, I'd recommend, first, researching it, realizing that this is a known quirk of brain processing, not anything external to what your brain conjures up, and maybe try sleeping on your side, if you can, and don't already.

As for the coincidences with the receipts and such; others have already responded to those. Briefly, our minds are primed to recognize patterns that seem relevant to us, and the OPPORTUNITIES for random occurrancies of such numerical patterns are so many, in any given day, that if you are primed to notice them, you will see them relatively frequently, just by chance. It's not improbable at all.
 
Swordfishtrombone said:
.....As for the coincidences with the receipts and such; others have already responded to those. Briefly, our minds are primed to recognize patterns that seem relevant to us, and the OPPORTUNITIES for random occurrancies of such numerical patterns are so many, in any given day, that if you are primed to notice them, you will see them relatively frequently, just by chance. It's not improbable at all.
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Excellent description SFT.

@Truthlover - try this little exercise to see for yourself an example of how you are primed to recognize patterns:

Pick a random 3-digit number. Over the next while (month, 6 months, year), watch how many times this number will appear in your life (hotel room number, in a movie/TV show, number on a bus driving past, sign/poster on a wall, etc)

You will think you are being haunted by that number!
 
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truthlover said:
Hi Slowvehicle,

Not exactly, no, but if it had to be represented within the constraints of a dollars and cents format, within the price range I was buying goods (i.e. well under $100), it would have to be either '66.60' or '66.06'. I think that if there is an 'it' at play here, if there was literally '666' printed where the total should display, it would be far too blatant to manifest on a physical, material object like a receipt. Anyways ... :/
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If you turn it upside down, it is 90.99. Which happens to be a great deal on a rear end assmbly in a car.


http://www.indypicapart.com/part-prices
'REAR END ASSEMBLY (CAR) $90.99'

Also a great deal on a truck axle.

http://dosamigospullnsave.com/dos-amigos-pull-and-save-auto-parts-price-list.htm
'AXLE TRUCK STRAIGHT (BARE) P/U-VAN $90.99'


A coincidence? I think not! :jaw-dropp
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Your chosen lifestyle is very stressful on you . . .
The lifestyle you have chosen is one of considerable stress.
. . . you must also contend with early teachings from childhood that may conflict with your lifestyle choice or decision.
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I appreciate the helpful information you provided Chris, but the above phrases come off a little "victim-shamey", i.e. truthseeker's choice to live gay has put him under unusual stress. In other words, he has selected a sexual orientation that comes with risks for stress that can contribute to anxiety disorders that can manifest as such things as awake sleep paralysis.

If his homosexuality has been a source of stress in his life, I suspect that the stress has stemmed instead from an inborn sense of self that is at odds from that society expects. It's one thing to be bullied, beaten, treated like a second-class citizen, told that you're possessed by demons, and condemned to hell for something you've chosen to do. From what gay people have been telling us for decades, however, they're enduring these injustices for something they're powerless to choose not to do. I suspect that truthseeker has no more chosen his gay lifestyle than you have chosen your straight lifestyle.
 
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