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My terrifying experiences - skeptical perspective much appreciated

Hi truthlover,

I am about your age. Many times during serious illnesses or episodes of dizziness or disorientation I have seen and even heard some bizarre and frightening scenes. It happens mostly during some sort of threshold awareness where I am just barely awake---enough to comprehend that I'm lying in bed. I've even "felt" some strange rubbery textures that weren't there at all.
Nausea tends to be a big trigger for me.....awful experiences.

With that said I don't see how hard it is to rationalize these things with what we know from modern psychology and neurology. When you get drunk there is that link between what you drank and your altered behavior.

It's all in the mind. Even if in your eyes there is no apparent cause, there is no need to look elsewhere given what we know.
 
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Beth said:
I'll second that opinion.
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I'll third this. I've had a couple of episodes of this in my life, and even knowing about it, it can be very disturbing as it happens.


My first experience sounds very similar to his, imagining that someone is pinning me to the bed. In my case it was my brother I was dreaming, as I was crashed at his place while on vacation. I imagined he had snuck into the room and pounced on me in my sleep, and I was unable to get out from under him.

I knew this was unusual as it was happening, since we've never had that kind of rough and tumble relationship, and in any case, I'm a better wrestler than he is, but at the time it felt quite real.


My most recent case was just a month or so ago, and it took the form of a classic "Groundhog Day" sequence. I could hear my housemate and her grandkids in the kitchen, and imagined I had gotten out of bed to go talk to them. Then, I snapped back into my bed, just at the moment of waking up, again hearing them in the kitchen. I went through that cycle several times, I'm not sure even how many. At some point I became aware of what was going on, and kept trying to wake up for real, but kept getting stuck in the same dream loop. It was quite disturbing, and some part of me was thinking I might not get out of the loop.

If you don't know what is going on, I can totally see someone freaking out over such experiences. Even knowing what I do, I came close to panic that last time.
 
Hi all,

I want to go through responses more methodically when I have a bit more time.

I first want to thank those who have put the time and effort into actually supplying evidence-based material which helps explain some of this phenomena, especially all the material regarding sleep disorders, as well as explaining some of the real probabilities at play here. This is what I was hoping to find, some backable evidence which supports a material explanation. Something which mitigates my fear that something supernatural was going on.

I also want to address some of my 'critics' on here, namely William Parcher and SezMe, as I feel I have been misunderstood. And to be honest I'm not sure why I'm attracting personal criticism, as all I'm trying to do is put down my experiences in hope of having some truth shed on the matter.

William Parcher / SezMe, what I was trying to convey in my first post is this. I want to believe, and would love to believe, that the material world is all we have. If one could 'choose' what is true, I would 'choose' that reality - that all is material and nothing else. I find it comforting to think nothing else exists, as any unknown realm of supernatural would just complicate things and make the discovery of true meaning virtually impossible. Materialism has been my default position through much of my life. However, these experiences make me worry that something else is going on. They have made me doubt my materialism. If you take the time to read my post, I hope you can appreciate just how TERRIFYING, REAL, SEEMINGLY PREMEDITATED and MIND BOGGLING these experiences have been for me. As I tried to explain in my introduction, I want the material world to be all there is. This is the reality I hope is true. At the same time, what I ultimately WANT to know is the truth, even if it conflicts with what I want reality to be. What a lot of the moral language I was using is about is what I perceived the horrible, terrible 'nightmares' to be (potentially) pertaining to. As I have stated previously, a lot of my experiences are compatible with Catholic church theology about demons, Satan, possession, and homosexuality, and I know a lot about this as I have been schooled as a Catholic and done my own research. Skepticism is not the same as materialism, but most skeptics are probably materialists. No one on here should be poo pooing what I'm recounting merely because it has been a horrendous experience which seems very difficult to be completely illuminated via material explanations.

Anyways I'm not here to argue, I'm here to have some light shed on my experiences.

Anyways, thanks all, I will hopefully get time to more methodically respond soon. It is the early hours of the morning here in Oz.
 
Take nothing personally, truthlover. Much of what comes across as personal attack here is not actually so but is rather bluntness. Much of what is personal attack is not really a result of displeasure with you but the result of a long history of dealing with less-than-forthright believers.

Most of us here on the skeptical side have had discussions regarding topics similar or identical to what you have brought up here, and while the discussion seems fresh to individuals like you who come here, they are old hat -- and sometimes frustrating -- to many who respond.

Sort of like a teacher who gets the same questions daily from different students and then again with next year's class. Those teachers who can handle that have my respect, but some get tired of it.
 
Hi Garrette,

Thanks for your response. I understand where you are coming from, I struggle in my own life with having to do that as well. I genuinely would find it helpful / comforting to see some accounts of similar said experiences. If you can recall any at ease would you mind linking them for me? I would love to read them when I have time.
 
truthlover said:
Hi Garrette,

Thanks for your response. I understand where you are coming from, I struggle in my own life with having to do that as well. I genuinely would find it helpful / comforting to see some accounts of similar said experiences. If you can recall any at ease would you mind linking them for me? I would love to read them when I have time.
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The web is already full of accounts of people who have been lying in bed and had a demon crushing their chest. The same can be found for prices of retail goods (receipts) that contain three sixes.
 
You are calling yourself a staunch materialist but what is it really going to take for you to remove supernatural explanations from the table? Will some words and citations from some skeptics actually do that?
 
Hi William Parcher,

I'm not a staunch materialist, as staunch implies I will stick by that world-view no matter what. I hope materialism is all we have, as it is what I'm most comfortable with, yet if it's not then I still want to know about it, because truth is truth. And above all, I want to be loyal to what is true and actual - as skeptics purport to be?

And yes, these words and citations from skeptics providing evidence really are helping me work through my experiences. I can't wait to research some of these phenomena so far suggested, please people keep the input coming. Thankfully, as I had hoped was the case, there are material explanations for much of the phenomena I had experienced (and it must be said if a fully evidenced non-materialist explanation was put forth, I would also look at that if sufficiently backed up), nonetheless the intensity of what I experienced was extreme, W.P., and I haven't even divulged the full detail of some of the things that happened to me. If a material explanation is plausible, then I must have been at the extreme high end of said sleep disorders / experiences. Truly horrifying.
 
truthlover said:
This is what I was hoping to find, some backable evidence which supports a material explanation. Something which mitigates my fear that something supernatural was going on.
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Your first experience sounds like sleep paralysis. Your mind is actually in a dream state. The nerves that connect directly to the brain function while those below the neck do not. This means that you can move your eyes but you cannot move your arms. You don't feel like you are dreaming but it seems strange that you can't move. I've experienced this myself.

Because you are dreaming you are susceptible to thoughts and images that don't happen when you are awake because these are suppressed by your brain's inhibition system. The impression of an evil or malevolent presence is not uncommon. Many interpret this along with the sleep paralysis as visitation by aliens but others interpret it as a ghost or demon. However, these impressions can happen during other altered brain states such as during seizures and when taking PCP or LSD. Sometimes the impressions will be of a loving or positive presence and these are more often interpreted as visitation by an angel or God however some have interpreted them as a type of cosmic consciousness.

Vivid dreams can happen during times of stress and can also become more frequent because of certain medications.

As I have stated previously, a lot of my experiences are compatible with Catholic church theology about demons, Satan, possession, and homosexuality, and I know a lot about this as I have been schooled as a Catholic and done my own research.
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If you are concerned about this then I can suggest things to counteract it.
 
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Hi barehl, thanks for that great breakdown. So you're saying your eyes can be completely open, moving and perceiving the room, but your body paralysed, AND on top of this you can 'dream' up the content and goings-on in the room you're percieving? Pretty much like an extremely vivid hallucination but you're paralysed and technically 'sleeping'? That would explain a lot, this is what many of my nightmares were like. I have noticed a correlation with stress, as the second onset of recurring dreams when I moved out of home occurred at a time I was under a lot of pressure.

Please do proceed with your counteracting advice, it is something I'm concerned about.
 
truthlover said:
Hi barehl, thanks for that great breakdown. So you're saying your eyes can be completely open, moving and perceiving the room, but your body paralysed, AND on top of this you can 'dream' up the content and goings-on in the room you're percieving? Pretty much like an extremely vivid hallucination but you're paralysed and technically 'sleeping'? That would explain a lot, this is what many of my nightmares were like. I have noticed a correlation with stress, as the second onset of recurring dreams when I moved out of home occurred at a time I was under a lot of pressure.

Please do proceed with your counteracting advice, it is something I'm concerned about.
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During REM sleep it is normal to have very low muscle tone (effectively, to be unable to move your muscles apart from the eyes), so you are effectively paralysed. During this stage of sleep the brain is highly active. Usually you are unconscious during this stage of sleep. Sleep paralysis is a disorder of transition between sleeping and waking states were you become aware while your body remains paralysed.

Some of the common hallucinations associated with sleep paralysis include the feeling of intruders lurking, somebody or something sitting on your chest, being threatened or attacked, and demonic voices. The hallucinations can be extremely vivid, detailed and complex. There is a study here reporting a survey of hallucinatory experiences associated with sleep paralysis. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2869.2005.00477.x/full

Many delusional beliefs originate from anomalous perceptual experiences. It is normal that the explanation for these experiences would follow themes that are prevalent in your culture or upbringing, whether this is conscious or unconscious. The brain tries to make sense of perceptual experiences by integrating them with knowledge to form a coherent narrative.
 
Truthlover you may have the early stages of Schizophrenia. I'm not a Psychiatrist but I have lived with a person with the disease for years. You should definitely seek help from mental health pros.
 
truthlover said:
So you're saying your eyes can be completely open, moving and perceiving the room, but your body paralysed, AND on top of this you can 'dream' up the content and goings-on in the room you're percieving?
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Yes. During dream sleep the lower part of the brain shuts off most voluntary movements down the spine. However, since the nerves in the head lead directly to the cerebrum, these can't be shut off. When this process doesn't work quite right, people end up sleepwalking, eyes open but still asleep.

Pretty much like an extremely vivid hallucination but you're paralysed and technically 'sleeping'? That would explain a lot, this is what many of my nightmares were like.
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I was dreaming and I opened my eyes. I could see and thought I was awake. The sun was up and the room was well lit. The room seemed normal, but I couldn't move or speak. I could move my eyes. After a bit of trying to move, I felt my mind shift into a genuinely wakeful state. Then I could move just fine.

I have noticed a correlation with stress, as the second onset of recurring dreams when I moved out of home occurred at a time I was under a lot of pressure.
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This is common. Sleepwalking is also more common when stressed.

Please do proceed with your counteracting advice, it is something I'm concerned about.
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Since movement by anything can be misinterpreted I would avoid animals in the bedroom or things like clocks with pendulums. I would put an indoor plant in your room, out of arm's reach but nearby. For some reason, living plants seem to be a positive. Secondly, use a familiar scent like vanilla, cinnamon, or peppermint. Just put a couple of drops on a paper towel before you get into bed.
 
Welcome to the forum Truthlover. I hope your problems begin and end with sleep disorders.

Wanting to make sense — to have things sensible — I get that. It's necessary to have something firm to keep as a still-point when you are being pushed around by nature and your own body.

I experienced a waking paralysis once. I woke and felt trapped by my blankets. Everything was grey and shaded. I could feel something approaching, but I could not see it. I —

— a part of me spoke-up. "You are having an episode of sleep paralysis. There is nothing coming. The fear is baseless. Your arms and legs are not trapped, they are simply not awake yet. Move them."

I started to focus on one arm. One finger. I ignored all other inputs and just drove that finger to move.

It moved. I quickly unlocked and threw-off the blankets. It was day and the sun wanted me to open the blinds.

Trust what you learn in material sciences, in the realms of the skeptics. It's useful stuff and you never know when it will help you.
 
When I drive on Highway 48 I always travel at exactly 48 MPH ... but you should see when I make a left onto Hyw 404

Sorry count not resist vaguely similar number humour! :)
 
Oh yeah! ... and agree with everyone else definitely sleep paralysis... I have it happen every few weeks myself .. typically when napping ... rarely scary violent stuff ... but always a bit of danger in the dreams as I can't move.
 
One tip that has worked very well for me: Convince yourself before falling asleep that you understand what sleep paralysis is. The next time you find yourself having one of those terrible experiences, think to yourself -- within your dream state -- "Oh, yeah, this is sleep paralysis."

When I have done that I almost invariably immediately wake up. Not always, but almost always, and it took a few attempts for it to work.

There you go.
 
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