Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[RoseMontague]

If he was entitled to go to school in Italy and didn't need a visa to work he probably was naturalised. The TIMES reported he was of dual Italian - Ivory Coast nationality.

Do you have any reason to be vehemently against this idea?

Cites were posted here in response to your claim here earlier. Read them, including the one showing the statues that he had to be an official citizen to receive benefits.

 

[acbytesla]

Mortgages are similar in the US, generally due on the first of each month and if you close in the middle of the month a prorated portion of the mortgage interest for that month is paid out of closing to have your payments fall on the first.

No offense to all involved in the discussion about rents. In a way, I agree with Vixen on this. Not the quarter day nonsense. I have yet to see any reliable information about Rudy's financial situation other that we know that he had lost his job.

I do agree with Vixen that rents could be due virtually on any day of the month. That said, from life's experience having rented at least 2 dozen apartments in my life, every single one was due on the first but could be paid as late as the 5th without being late. So I would usually pay my rent anywhere from say the 25th to the 10th.

So much depends on the landlord and the relationship with the tenant.
Most landlords in my experience just want to make sure that they get paid. With college students, my guess is that they are extra concerned that their tenants might fall behind, so I bet on average they are all over those students come first of the month.

We'll never really know if Rudy was thinking about stealing people's rent or not. But you can bet that Rudy was looking to steal, just as he was at the law office and probably the nursery days before.

 

[Vixen]

Cites were posted here in response to your claim here earlier. Read them, including the one showing the statues that he had to be an official citizen to receive benefits.

Numbers explained to us Italian citizenship is based on jus sanguine (blood) as compared to say, France or the USA, based on jus soilis soil (where you were born).

In addition, persons can apply for citizenship after seven years residence, demonstrated knowledge of language or other close links, such as marriage & family.

As Rudy has been there since age 5, it seems likely at some point he applied for citizenship by naturalisation. Far from being a drifter, he was perfectly conventional. 2008 was a massive world recession. So he was out of work two months. <shrug> Big deal.

 

[RoseMontague]

Numbers explained to us Italian citizenship is based on jus sanguine (blood) as compared to say, France or the USA, based on jus soilis soil (where you were born).

In addition, persons can apply for citizenship after seven years residence, demonstrated knowledge of language or other close links, such as marriage & family.

As Rudy has been there since age 5, it seems likely at some point he applied for citizenship by naturalisation. Far from being a drifter, he was perfectly conventional. 2008 was a massive world recession. So he was out of work two months. <shrug> Big deal.

Again, provide a cite that he was an Italian citizen. The motivations reports do not list him as an Italian citizen. Still waiting from last time.

 

[Vixen]

Again, provide a cite that he was an Italian citizen. The motivations reports do not list him as an Italian citizen. Still waiting from last time.

You have been shown a clipping from the TIMES.

 

[Vixen]

No offense to all involved in the discussion about rents. In a way, I agree with Vixen on this. Not the quarter day nonsense. I have yet to see any reliable information about Rudy's financial situation other that we know that he had lost his job.

I do agree with Vixen that rents could be due virtually on any day of the month. That said, from life's experience having rented at least 2 dozen apartments in my life, every single one was due on the first but could be paid as late as the 5th without being late. So I would usually pay my rent anywhere from say the 25th to the 10th.

So much depends on the landlord and the relationship with the tenant.
Most landlords in my experience just want to make sure that they get paid. With college students, my guess is that they are extra concerned that their tenants might fall behind, so I bet on average they are all over those students come first of the month.

We'll never really know if Rudy was thinking about stealing people's rent or not. But you can bet that Rudy was looking to steal, just as he was at the law office and probably the nursery days before.

Dempsey and Burleigh, as fervent "advocacy" campaigners on behalf of Amanda, have a vested interest in demonising Rudy as the "sole perp". Thus, Rudy smoking dope takes on ominous shades, whereas the kids' drug taking is portrayed as normal.

What liars don't realise is that lies are transparent.

If Rudy was the sole perp, argue it properly. Don't insult people's intelligence by constructing "bogey man" stories.

 

[acbytesla]

You have been shown a clipping from the TIMES.

Knock it off Vixen. You have been shown quite conclusively that newspaper articles and specifically that The Times IS NOT A CREDIBLE SOURCE for the facts of the Meredith Kercher murder.

Do you have any references to any legal documents?

 

[Vixen]

Knock it off Vixen. You have been shown quite conclusively that newspaper articles and specifically that The Times IS NOT A CREDIBLE SOURCE for the facts of the Meredith Kercher murder.

Do you have any references to any legal documents?

Have a look at the same judgments Rose Montague quote s. If he was an alien, the judge would have ordered immediate deportation on completion of the sentence.

The judges do not have the power to do that where the guilty party has citizenship.

 

[acbytesla]

Dempsey and Burleigh, as fervent "advocacy" campaigners on behalf of Amanda, have a vested interest in demonising Rudy as the "sole perp". Thus, Rudy smoking dope takes on ominous shades, whereas the kids' drug taking is portrayed as normal.

What liars don't realise is that lies are transparent.

If Rudy was the sole perp, argue it properly. Don't insult people's intelligence by constructing "bogey man" stories.

Poppycock. Rudy Guede, broke into the nursery in Milan. He was caught with a knife taken from the kitchen of that nursery and a laptop and phone stolen from a law office blocks from his apartment in Perugia. The nursery had been burgled weeks before. Rudy was identified by Christian Tremantano as the burglar that had broken into his apartment. He also lived next door to Ms. Mandy Diaz who's apartment had been robbed just a few days earlier. That's a hell of lot of circumstantial evidence all pointing to Rudy being a dangerous burglar.

In contrast, there is only proof that Amanda and Raffaele smoked cannabis. Something ALL the residents of the cottage upstairs and downstairs did. But hey, you can and will over exaggerate it's importance.

 

[acbytesla]

Have a look at the same judgments Rose Montague quote s. If he was an alien, the judge would have ordered immediate deportation on completion of the sentence.

The judges do not have the power to do that where the guilty party has citizenship.

You know what Vixen? I agree. Rudy wasn't a drifter. I have never seen anything that says he was an Italian citizen. But that doesn't mean he wasn't. I know that he had been adopted. That probably gave him a leg up towards citizenship. But I don't know Italian laws regarding citizenship.

I do know that he was a burglar. Probably small time, but still a burglar.

 

[Bill Williams]

Dempsey and Burleigh, as fervent "advocacy" campaigners on behalf of Amanda, have a vested interest in demonising Rudy as the "sole perp". Thus, Rudy smoking dope takes on ominous shades, whereas the kids' drug taking is portrayed as normal.

What liars don't realise is that lies are transparent.

If Rudy was the sole perp, argue it properly. Don't insult people's intelligence by constructing "bogey man" stories.

Poppycock. Rudy Guede, broke into the nursery in Milan. He was caught with a knife taken from the kitchen of that nursery and a laptop and phone stolen from a law office blocks for his apartment in Perugia. The nursery had been burgled weeks before. Rudy was identified by Christian Tremantano as the burglar that had broken into his apartment. He also lived next door to Ms. Mandy Diaz who's apartment had been robbed just a few days earlier. That's a hell of lot of circumstantial evidence all pointing to Rudy being a dangerous burglar.

In contrast, there is only proof that Amanda and Raffaele smoked cannabis. Something ALL the residents of the cottage upstairs and downstairs did. But hey, you can and will over exaggerate it's importance.

Since when is it "advocacy" to come to the conclusion that someone is innocent? Does this mean that the Italian courts are now doing "advocacy" for Raffaele and Amanda?

Since when is it "demonizing" to say that the evidence points to someone's sole guilt? As acbytesla has written, is it demonizing Rudy to suggest he was the sole perp in the Milan break-in?

Who has ever said that Rudy's dope smoking was an "ominous shade"? Why is it that you use the words "dope smoking" in relation to Rudy, but "drug taking" in relation to RS and AK?

You say, "Don't insult people's intelligence by constructing "bogey man" stories." Discuss why the use of weasel words is not doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing.

 

[Bill Williams]

Seven-hundred fifty-six posts in 27 days. What is the definition of "flooding"?

 

[carbonjam72]

Seven-hundred fifty-six posts in 27 days. What is the definition of "flooding"?

A submergence of the present features of a defined landscape with a new medium?

 

[Grinder]

I don't agree. 1st November is a public holiday in Italy and in 2007 it fell on a Thursday. Chances are the rents were not due til the Friday, or even the Monday if everyone was taking a de facto extra long weekend.

IIRC that was the case and why F didn't take Mez's when she offered.

 

[anglolawyer]

Seven-hundred fifty-six posts in 27 days. What is the definition of "flooding"?

So what? No law against it.

 

[Dan O.]

Incidentally, there is an obvious problem with the argument that Rudy was hoping to scoop up all the rent money. He was a day late. For that reason and also because everybody could be expected to be partying on Halloween, he should have chosen the previous evening.

It has been revealed that rent was due on the 5th. Being a lawyer and all, you may have been exposed to the term "grace period".

 

[Kauffer]

Dempsey and Burleigh, as fervent "advocacy" campaigners on behalf of Amanda, have a vested interest in demonising Rudy as the "sole perp". Thus, Rudy smoking dope takes on ominous shades, whereas the kids' drug taking is portrayed as normal.

What liars don't realise is that lies are transparent.

If Rudy was the sole perp, argue it properly. Don't insult people's intelligence by constructing "bogey man" stories.

Bogey man stories like this evidence admitted at trial?

"Judge Paolo Micheli admitted several new pieces of evidence, including the testimony of a young Somali man who used to play basketball with Guede on a court near the rented house that Miss Kercher shared with Knox.

Guede, who was born in the Ivory Coast but came to Italy as a child, is the only one of the three accused to admit to being in Miss Kercher’s house on the night of the murder, but maintains he had nothing to do with her death.

Prosecutors accuse him of sexually assaulting Miss Kercher with the help of Knox and Sollecito in what may have been a kinky sex game gone horribly awry. In the document, Abukar Mohamed Barrow, known as “Momi”, accused Guede of drinking too much, taking drugs and trying to steal the handbags of young women during nights out on the town.

“Rudy was often drunk. I know he took cocaine. Often he was off his head with the drugs that he was taking. And when he was like that he would be a nuisance to girls, he’d block their path and try to hassle them. When we were in crowded places he stole their bags,” Barrow testified, according to excerpts of his evidence printed in the Italian press."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...er-trial-Rudy-Guede-was-violent-to-women.html

 

[Kauffer]

You have been shown a clipping from the TIMES.

You have been shown documentary evidence! And you come back with a clipping?

 

[Grinder]

Imagine you are a student abroad paying rent in cash. You would want to hand over that cash ASAP, to transfer the risks and rewards of ownership, it being a sunk cost; i.e., there is nothing to be gained hanging onto it.

A burglar will therefore, reason the cash will be available on the last working day of the bank, before a four day bank closure.

There was absolutely no guarantee whatsoever of €1,200- lying around in wait for an impromptu burglar.

She remembered that on October 30, she had spoken with Laura, Filomena and Meredith to ask their advice regarding Raffaele, because she had felt a little guilty, since she still had feelings for an ex-boyfriend that she had left in the United States named DJ. She also recalled that they had also talked about the rent payment, and that Meredith had offered to pay immediately but was told instead to wait and pay at the same time that they would all be paying, on the due date.

Nina Burleigh is a self-professed "advocate" journalist, presumably in exchange for biographical and insider info from the Knox family.

The argument, "Rudy was so desperately broke, he must be the burglar and murderer", doesn't cut mustard. As a naturalised (?) Italian, he was probably entitled to state benefits, the UK equivalent of Job Seekers Allowance and Housing Benefit. Being just one month in arrears and two month's unemployed, doesn't sound like sociopathic recklessness to me.

IIRC his adoptive mother was still slipping him money. Of course he had robbed the nursery of 2000 and all the other jobs would have him flush with cash.

But he was there, why?

 

[Vixen]

Poppycock. Rudy Guede, broke into the nursery in Milan. He was caught with a knife taken from the kitchen of that nursery and a laptop and phone stolen from a law office blocks from his apartment in Perugia. The nursery had been burgled weeks before. Rudy was identified by Christian Tremantano as the burglar that had broken into his apartment. He also lived next door to Ms. Mandy Diaz who's apartment had been robbed just a few days earlier. That's a hell of lot of circumstantial evidence all pointing to Rudy being a dangerous burglar.

In contrast, there is only proof that Amanda and Raffaele smoked cannabis. Something ALL the residents of the cottage upstairs and downstairs did. But hey, you can and will over exaggerate it's importance.

That's not evidence. That's pure speculation in hindsight - a fine thing - has never been tested to be true.

We had a case in England Joanna Yeates(_?) was found brutally murdered. An eccentric elderly resident became a prime suspect. Suddenly, people came crawling out of the woodwork to reveal to the UK tabloid press what a creep, pervert and peeping Tom this guy was.

It turned out he was completely innocent and entirely respectable.

He won handsome damages.