MichaelB
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That's actually a fake map the fake wiki made using the real fingerprint map as a template and Photoshop.
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Continuation Part 15: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito
- Thread starter carbonjam72
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That's actually a fake map the fake wiki made using the real fingerprint map as a template and Photoshop.
Not true. Hospitals use ear lobe blood because earlobes bleed well in response to pricking with a needle, they certainly produce lots of drops of blood. Then you have to hold your ear to stop it bleeding. It is often done in children where it is easier to collect capillary blood from drops of blood from the ear than taking blood from the vein. FWIW major arteries are likely to spurt producing a spray of blood not drips.
So does this mean you are a fule? I would not take anything Molesworth says as reliable!
Sometimes in the examination of the Amanda Knox - Raffaele Sollecito case posters here rightfully examine deeply the minute details of the case. In doing this, we all sometimes neglect that it is difficult to determine the motivations and intentions of the Italian police in attempting to solve the murder/rape of Meredith Kercher so quickly, apparently before significant forensic results had been obtained. This post is intended to give an overview based on my understanding.
I have suggested, based upon the testimony of VQA (= assistant vice commandant, IIUC) Edgardo Giobbi, that there was a search by the police for "suspects of convenience". That is, the police first looked at the persons closest to Meredith in Perugia as potential suspects. This is actually an effective method in many murder investigations, as long as it is followed with open-minded honesty and competence.
The problem in this case is that there was no open-minded honesty or competence. An important element of the crime scene, the apparent break-in through Filomena's window, was quickly and erroneously attributed to staging. Giobbi's testimony provides reasons for this attribution, but none are objectively supported by forensic evidence; except for the reference to glass fragments on top of clothes and lack of glass on the ground (neither of which were objectively documented by photography), the other reasons related to Giobbi's intuition or experience. The relative absence of glass on the ground would actually be consistent with a rock thrown from outside through the window.
While one of the Postal Police reportedly questioned whether there was a burglary, it is plausible (as pointed out recently by Bill Williams) that the PP's statement may have meant he perceived an incomplete burglary.
My inference is that when Giobbi identified Amanda's alibi for the night of the murder as resting only on her being with Raffaele in his apartment, and as he stated weaker than that of the others close to Meredith, and recognizing her lack of a lawyer and relative unworldliness, he fixed on her as a "suspect of convenience". No doubt the obsessions and legal problems of the director of the investigation, PM Giuliano Mignini, and the views (unknown to us) and integrity (later found questionable) of Deputy Police Commissioner Monica Napoleani were important.
But what motivated the police to move so quickly, apparently before the significant forensic results were obtained? I believe it was not merely incompetence. Certainly the anticipated arrival of Amanda's mother on Nov. 6, 2007 could have played a role. But there were significant political and media pressures on the police, as this well-known quotation from the Nov. 6 press conference states:
It was these pressures on the police that motivated their initial misconduct, the procedurally illegal interrogations of Nov. 5/6, 2007, and of course it was the lack of integrity of the police that allowed that misconduct. The interrogation of Amanda Knox included, if one accepts her claims of being threatened and hit, violations of Italian criminal law punishable by imprisonment. The continued police, prosecution, and judicial misconduct after the interrogation were motivated by not merely the desire to save face, but a desire of the judiciary (which includes the police and prosecutors as well as the judges) to defend the police from possible criminal charges. Fortunately, not all the judges have felt that their responsibility to the judicial team outweighed their responsibility to provide some justice in the case. Thus, the Hellmann court provisionally acquitted and the Marasca panel of the CSC has now (March, 2015) finally acquitted Amanda and Raffaele.
ETA: Souce: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/
ETA2: Amanda Knox remains convicted of calunnia against Patrick Lumumba. She has lodged a claim against Italy with the ECHR regarding this conviction as a violation of her rights under the Convention.
I have suggested, based upon the testimony of VQA (= assistant vice commandant, IIUC) Edgardo Giobbi, that there was a search by the police for "suspects of convenience". That is, the police first looked at the persons closest to Meredith in Perugia as potential suspects. This is actually an effective method in many murder investigations, as long as it is followed with open-minded honesty and competence.
The problem in this case is that there was no open-minded honesty or competence. An important element of the crime scene, the apparent break-in through Filomena's window, was quickly and erroneously attributed to staging. Giobbi's testimony provides reasons for this attribution, but none are objectively supported by forensic evidence; except for the reference to glass fragments on top of clothes and lack of glass on the ground (neither of which were objectively documented by photography), the other reasons related to Giobbi's intuition or experience. The relative absence of glass on the ground would actually be consistent with a rock thrown from outside through the window.
While one of the Postal Police reportedly questioned whether there was a burglary, it is plausible (as pointed out recently by Bill Williams) that the PP's statement may have meant he perceived an incomplete burglary.
My inference is that when Giobbi identified Amanda's alibi for the night of the murder as resting only on her being with Raffaele in his apartment, and as he stated weaker than that of the others close to Meredith, and recognizing her lack of a lawyer and relative unworldliness, he fixed on her as a "suspect of convenience". No doubt the obsessions and legal problems of the director of the investigation, PM Giuliano Mignini, and the views (unknown to us) and integrity (later found questionable) of Deputy Police Commissioner Monica Napoleani were important.
But what motivated the police to move so quickly, apparently before the significant forensic results were obtained? I believe it was not merely incompetence. Certainly the anticipated arrival of Amanda's mother on Nov. 6, 2007 could have played a role. But there were significant political and media pressures on the police, as this well-known quotation from the Nov. 6 press conference states:
It was these pressures on the police that motivated their initial misconduct, the procedurally illegal interrogations of Nov. 5/6, 2007, and of course it was the lack of integrity of the police that allowed that misconduct. The interrogation of Amanda Knox included, if one accepts her claims of being threatened and hit, violations of Italian criminal law punishable by imprisonment. The continued police, prosecution, and judicial misconduct after the interrogation were motivated by not merely the desire to save face, but a desire of the judiciary (which includes the police and prosecutors as well as the judges) to defend the police from possible criminal charges. Fortunately, not all the judges have felt that their responsibility to the judicial team outweighed their responsibility to provide some justice in the case. Thus, the Hellmann court provisionally acquitted and the Marasca panel of the CSC has now (March, 2015) finally acquitted Amanda and Raffaele.
ETA: Souce: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/
ETA2: Amanda Knox remains convicted of calunnia against Patrick Lumumba. She has lodged a claim against Italy with the ECHR regarding this conviction as a violation of her rights under the Convention.
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codyjuneau
Muse
.RoseMontague said:
Hi Rose, Chris
How about Migninioned, or Migninionated ?
Sorry for the late response, I am several pages behind.
I am trying to catch up by ignoring every post that has the word vixen in it, but I'm still falling behind because of all the posts with the word 'framed' in them.
Danno, thanks for the info about Amanda wearing gloves when she was asked to select a knife. That is the first time I have heard that one.
Cody
.
The truth is Knox spoke poor Italian and Filomena spoke poor English. A huge amount is being put on over interpretation of a conversation with no contemporary record, and a high likelihood of tense errors. I could easily say under stress in French or Spanish say I am at a place instead of I have been at a place. I would probably not even be aware of the tense error. This is quite apart from any uncertainty about the accuracy of telephone location data.
Why did Filomena not call the police? She was a native Italian speaker, her room had been broken into, she was 'in charge' of the flat, she was a trainee lawyer. Instead she decided to come over and remove property from the crime scene? Now that is suspicious behaviour.
Again there is no contemporaneous record. Knox spoke English, the police man spoke Italian. The police have no idea what Knox said. What they can say at best is that Sollecito whose English was poor, said that Knox said that the door was locked. Solicit in fact says he mistranslated. The Italian for closed and locked are very similar and Knox said the door was closed.
Not true. Stefanoni was called in from Rome by the investigating Police. She testifies she arrived about 20.00 Friday 2 November. Knox was not present. Why do you continue to post things that are untrue? Could you employ a fact checker? Nearly every post contains errors.
MichaelB
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Just so there's no confusion: The fake map the guilters made is the one on the left. It's not from the police, prosecution or any expert from the trial. They used the fingerprint map as a template and photoshopped it.
Real fingerprint map from the Scientific Police: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Cottage-Fingerprint-Map.jpg
The only map the police made showing the location of footprints revealed by luminol was this one on page 15 of Rinaldi's report which Vinci uses in his report.
Rinadli Report: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Lorenzo-Rinaldi-1.pdf
Real fingerprint map from the Scientific Police: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Cottage-Fingerprint-Map.jpg
The only map the police made showing the location of footprints revealed by luminol was this one on page 15 of Rinaldi's report which Vinci uses in his report.
Rinadli Report: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Lorenzo-Rinaldi-1.pdf
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MichaelB
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Deposition of Mohammad Egbaria: Knew Rudy since September through Alex, brother of his girlfriend. On 27th Oct he received a call from Rudy which wasn’t from his usual cellphone number. He states Rudy’s usual cellphone number was 329-1819627. Rudy was in Milan dancing. He didn’t see Rudy in the days surrounding the murder, including Halloween.
Deposition of Philipp Maly: Doesn’t speak Italian so needed an English-Italian interpreter. Knew Rudy since 20th Oct approx, meeting him through his friend Alex on the steps of the cathedral. He was at the pub Shamrock the evening of the rugby match. He says both Rudy and Meredith were there but Rudy didn’t speak to Meredith. Philipp only ever saw Rudy when with other friends. In those meetings Rudy never mentioned Meredith. Rudy mentioned a German girl Alessia, who he liked. On the evening of Halloween he was with Alex and other friends at the pub Rock Castle. He didn’t see Rudy that evening. Nor did he see Rudy on 1st Nov. In fact last time he saw him was 4 or 5 days earlier, when Rudy was buying a kebab.
Deposition of Salim Zafer: Student and DJ at Merlin’s, La Tana and “Domus”. He met Meredith a few days after her arrival at Perugia, together with Sophie and others. He often saw her in the various local bars. He saw Meredith on the evening of Halloween at about 11:30, but didn’t see Rudy. On his way home at 3:45am approx he passed Meredith and her friends who were sitting together. On 1st Nov he worked at La Tana but there were few customers so he went to Domus to work. On 2nd Nov he worked at La Tana and then Domus and doesn’t remember seeing Rudy. Last time he saw Rudy he thinks was 29 Oct at Merlin. He saw him dancing and some of the time he danced on the tables – it looked like he’d had too much to drink.
Deposition of Philipp Maly: Doesn’t speak Italian so needed an English-Italian interpreter. Knew Rudy since 20th Oct approx, meeting him through his friend Alex on the steps of the cathedral. He was at the pub Shamrock the evening of the rugby match. He says both Rudy and Meredith were there but Rudy didn’t speak to Meredith. Philipp only ever saw Rudy when with other friends. In those meetings Rudy never mentioned Meredith. Rudy mentioned a German girl Alessia, who he liked. On the evening of Halloween he was with Alex and other friends at the pub Rock Castle. He didn’t see Rudy that evening. Nor did he see Rudy on 1st Nov. In fact last time he saw him was 4 or 5 days earlier, when Rudy was buying a kebab.
Deposition of Salim Zafer: Student and DJ at Merlin’s, La Tana and “Domus”. He met Meredith a few days after her arrival at Perugia, together with Sophie and others. He often saw her in the various local bars. He saw Meredith on the evening of Halloween at about 11:30, but didn’t see Rudy. On his way home at 3:45am approx he passed Meredith and her friends who were sitting together. On 1st Nov he worked at La Tana but there were few customers so he went to Domus to work. On 2nd Nov he worked at La Tana and then Domus and doesn’t remember seeing Rudy. Last time he saw Rudy he thinks was 29 Oct at Merlin. He saw him dancing and some of the time he danced on the tables – it looked like he’d had too much to drink.
In this case I think it is the responsibility of the house holder. The neighbour does not know that for instance the house holder had not forgotten their keys and broke in themselves, or another neighbour had already told them.
Just to remind you if it was staged it was not staged by Sollecito or Knox as confirmed by Cassation. The police present no evidence for staging.
RoseMontague
Published Author
IIRC, Stefi shows the location as Filomena's room with picture and two areas circled in her DNA presentation. I have never seen a photo of the actual stain revealed by Luminol, just that it is described as a blob.
ETA: They are assigned a photo page number however, although I have never seen it. The test results index shows two page numbers, the one identified as R is the page number in the test results document, the page numbers identified as A.F. (for foto) is a document that contains the pictures of the evidence.
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RoseMontague
Published Author
Filomena said there was no dryer, they used a clothes horse to hang the clothes for drying. I think you can see it in the evidence pictures (hallway IIRC). She said on nice days they would set it outside on the terrace with clothes on it to dry. (see her testimony)
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RoseMontague
Published Author
The only "evidence" presented is testimony of the glass on top of clothes. They took no pictures of this and the pictures we do have show evidence of the glass under the clothes. The other thing they mention is the lack of items stolen in Filomena's room. It's clear to me that Filomena left the room in a mess, I believe many items were already on the floor before the window was broken.
Yes of course, and many of us could imagine our bedroom being photographed for the world to study unexpectedly, and being in defensive mode. This is no excuse for any of these people to let Amanda be kidnapped and buried, and then never contacted again. Plague on all their houses.
Matthew Best
Penultimate Amazing
The results of that referendum are in.
anglolawyer
Banned
I don't know why you guys are being so harsh. Me and Grinder are ready to flip over to the other side just as soon as the washing machine results show up. The case is already looking pretty damning what with Raf's foot print being on the bath mat and Filomena's door being closed, open and/or ajar. Then there are all the Richard Owen reports and to cap it all, the unbreakable TJMK sources.
I missed Vixen's post where she said she was exercising debating skills. She has got this thread running at 160 posts a day clip single handed, and so is deserving of applause.
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
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It's like a golden oldies marathon weekend on a Top 40 radio station. Most of the guilter factoids Vixen presents have long since been debunked, or have never even been asserted by PLE/Mignini/Crini/Massei/Nencini. We've just found out Vixen is essentially copy/pasting from Peter Quennell for mercy's sake!!!
At this juncture, and before the motivations report, what is thete to talk about, really? No wonder 5 pages of the thread is devoted to dictionary definitions of scarcely defined quasi-legal concepts!!!!
It's not like there's any other issues in play. What we really need is Machiavelli back to explain in detail how the Masons and US media interests corrupted the Italian Supreme Court. I'd give that a try myself but nothing replaces the dietrological skills of our friend, Mach.
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