Looking for Skeptics - Continuation (Cassidy's EVP/diamond damage claim)

[Pixel42]

None of this accurately describes the claim about a consistent tone fading out while a ticking remains. That is a paranormal claim, and I have already set out a protocol for how it could be tested in an objective, empirical way.

Just as her claim that a recording was altered was objectively testable. We tested it, and proved that the MD hash remained the same. Yet here we are, months later, still indulging her fantasies.

 

[fromdownunder]

I think what needs to be done is to convince Cassidy to focus on one claim. At present she seems to be throwing everything at the wall in the hope that something might stick. JREF are not going to help with that, and the members of the ISF cannot halp with that Cassidy, unless you narrow down your claim to one testable claim.

You still seem to be trying to evidence several different things at the same time, which will simply not work, nor get you a test.

Simply decide which is your best claim, stick to it, and tell us exactly what will happen, and how it can be self evident that it has happened. If it is beyond the laws of known science, your favourite charity should get USD 1M once JREF accept the challenge, and you pass both the preliminary and final test.

But please stop trying to muddy the waters by claiming 3 - 4 different things at once. Pick one, and run with it or you are wasting your time, and other members time and JREF's time.

Norm

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Just as her claim that a recording was altered was objectively testable. We tested it, and proved that the MD hash remained the same. Yet here we are, months later, still indulging her fantasies.

You're probably right that the outcome will be the same. I don't imagine that repeatedly telling Cassidy that she's wrong will have much of an effect, either, and nor will complaining about the fact that she has thus far not changed her mind.

Nobody is being forced to participate in this thread, or spend any more time on this subject than they want to.

 

[wardenclyffe]

I'm not trying to convince Cassidy of anything. I'm just trying to help her get to a test. I find value in the test---not just for Cassidy, but the test in general is, I think, worthwhile.

Ward

 

[Pixel42]

You're probably right that the outcome will be the same. I don't imagine that repeatedly telling Cassidy that she's wrong will have much of an effect, either, and nor will complaining about the fact that she has thus far not changed her mind.

Nobody is being forced to participate in this thread, or spend any more time on this subject than they want to.

Fair enough. I just wanted to avoid raising false hopes in any newcomers to this discussion. Though I imagine most are familiar enough with the woo mindset to know what to expect.

 

[Mojo]

This seems very testable. The voice fading out while the rest of the music remains would be very noticeable (particularly as the backing vocals singing "lovely day, lovely day..." would continue, I presume, as they are short) and, while it would be possible to create a faked-up recording in preparation (I'm not saying that you would or could do that, but it is possible to achieve with the right know-how and equipment, which means the protocol must exclude that possibility), it should be relatively easy for a protocol to be devised which would ensure that this has not happened.

I vaguely remember seeing something about software that could selectively fade out a particular voice or instrument from a stereo recording based on its position in the stereo image. Is this possible, or am I misremembering?

 

[Daylightstar]

None of this accurately describes the claim about a consistent tone fading out while a ticking remains. That is a paranormal claim, and I have already set out a protocol for how it could be tested in an objective, empirical way.

There's no fading out, according to Cassidy.

 

[Daylightstar]

None of this accurately describes the claim about a consistent tone fading out while a ticking remains. That is a paranormal claim, and I have already set out a protocol for how it could be tested in an objective, empirical way.

That is your opinion, but a 'positive result' in your scenario would not be self evident of something outside the measure of science. And anyways, a claim for the MDC does not necessarily have to be paranormal specifically.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I vaguely remember seeing something about software that could selectively fade out a particular voice or instrument from a stereo recording based on its position in the stereo image. Is this possible, or am I misremembering?

It is possible to get rid of something in the centre of a stereo image by reversing the polarity of either the left or the right channel. This can work to get rid of lead vocals because they are usually panned dead centre. It will also get rid of anything else panned dead centre (as, for example, the bassline usually is, or in much modern music optimised for radio - everything else). It's also rarely clean, leaving artefacts of the sound behind, and you'll usually also still have the reverb from the vocals.

This doesn't apply to this claim, though, as we're talking about two sounds recorded through one microphone which can, therefore, only record a mono image.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

There's no fading out, according to Cassidy.

I tried recording a hum, and after 4 seconds introduced a tapping sound. The hum faded out but the tapping could still be clearly heard.

I tried recording (again 70hz) as a gentleman recited "The rain in Spain.." The hum faded out and the voice clearly remained.

I can't actually download the song "A Lovely Day" play it and have the held note fade out. I can record it playing, and then it fades out.

..

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

That is your opinion, but a 'positive result' in your scenario would not be self evident of something outside the measure of science.

Again, if you can come up with an explanation for the phenomenon which would not be "outside the measure of science", then please state it so that we can work on ways to rule it out as an explanation. Repeatedly saying that there are possible explanations while not stating what they are isn't particularly helpful. And if you don't know of any potential explanations for the phenomenon described, then why are you so such that these explanations exist?

 

[Cassidy]

Fair enough. I just wanted to avoid raising false hopes in any newcomers to this discussion. Though I imagine most are familiar enough with the woo mindset to know what to expect.

Back to past again (there is no need.. but)
Would that not be considered "power of suggestion" being used? "Nothing is happening because she is deluded" (Basically) Despite letters written from the medical side to support this unexplainable phenomena?
You do not know the truth Pixel, no one really knows the truth until it is investigated.

Here are certain "omitted" facts to consider if you wish to go back:
Uploading files in those days, the recordings lost quality of sound & volume (It's actually a signal, and not "recorded" EVP)

When the spirits refused to play card tricks, the thread went pear shaped.
I bit my tongue through months of sarcasm and ridicule and did not retaliate in the same manner. My Father was referred to as a racist pervert (all in good fun of course) Folk were scrutinizing a recording I'd uploaded. That particular recording had come from someone else's PC, not mine (after successful transfer of paranormal activity) One or two folk here who listened in, reported the same sentence as I (and others) could hear.

Alderbank's visit: Alderbank (Retired, age 64) confesses his hearing is poor, but he's brought along his grandson. They sat 5 to 6 feet away from the speakers. Whilst listening to the audio, the young man was hearing certain words (from that distance) and he stated this to Alderbank. Alderbank disagreed, he could not hear anything and stated so. (3 out of 4 folk hearing same words) I moved on to the next recording. The grandson didn't say much more after that, not without looking to Alderbank first.

Alderbank reports to the group: "I went expecting to hear voices but I heard nothing" I asked Alderbank about the voice he definitely heard coming through, and he stated that it wasn't a voice because it came over sounding like a chipmonk (highpitched but clear wording)
Prompting Alderbank in the thread regarding the voice he had definately heard, he replied "I didn't see what was paranormal about voices coming through a PC" (This actually contradicted his previous statement, but it slipped by) He also stated that if he was to go back to the thread and say he'd heard voices too, he'd also be ridiculed.
I'd played Alderbank just a few recordings (possibly 8 to 10) He reported to hearing "hundreds"

To "witness" and write out a public report, one must have good ears, stick to facts and take notes along the way.

JSFisher (ISF Member) Offered to send me a recording. He described the recording (accurately as requested) as having a "constant" noise running all the way through it. I received a copy of the file via email and sent it to a friend to inspect, confirming that the recording and his written description to the thread were matching up. I also listened into the file via landline, and was happy to hear that there was a "constant" noise running all the way through (The noise was rainfall & a cooling fan) I then opened the file and ran it through this here PC. The "constant" noise reduced to nothing (stopped dead) leaving short blips behind. All 3 of us had this file, and all 3 files had altered in the same manner.
Conclusion: .. "It must have been like that in the first place"

An accurate description of the sound file is extremely important, but that aside, would there have been any reason at all that the rainfall would stop (dead) and restart and stop again?
"Conclusion: "Files can get messed up after transferring" (Apart from mine apparently)

Pixel 42, you asked me a few days ago had anything changed, and my answer was yes. If I cannot prove that spirits are real, I can at least prove their abilities are real. I'd like to move on from the older thread, and will ask if you will please do the same. If you are going to continue to enlighten new folk regarding past events, please consider all the facts, and not just those that match to your own personal beliefs (No disrespect intended)

If you DO wish to discuss the past further, may I please suggest that we address the question above? "Can rainfall stop dead, restart and stop again? and did JSF turn off the fan at exactly the same time as the rain stopped dead?" Because, I did hear that sound file play through via landline, and it was "as described" A constant noise.

 

[Cassidy]

..

I did change the word from "disappeared" to "faded" because a member here didn't think the word "disappeared" was suitable. I changed as not to upset the applecart. On saying that, humming does fade fast, but a strong tone stops dead and completely disappears.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

It doesn't matter if it fades or stops dead. If it happens on a mono recording then it's not caused by a reversal of polarity.

 

[Cassidy]

Again, if you can come up with an explanation for the phenomenon which would not be "outside the measure of science", then please state it so that we can work on ways to rule it out as an explanation. Repeatedly saying that there are possible explanations while not stating what they are isn't particularly helpful. And if you don't know of any potential explanations for the phenomenon described, then why are you so such that these explanations exist?

I think the best thing to do is write up a protocol (I've checked the equipment required, it's under £100 for both pieces) and let JREF decide if it's worthwhile?

 

[Pixel42]

"Nothing is happening because she is deluded" (Basically)

You don't need to be deluded to be mistaken.

Despite letters written from the medical side to support this unexplainable phenomena?

The fact that your GP encourages you to properly investigate your experiences does not mean that he agrees that "unexplainable phenomena" are occurring. That's your interpretation, we don't know what his is. And even if he does agree, he can also be mistaken. GPs are hardly experts on the investigation of paranormal claims.

You do not know the truth Pixel, no one really knows the truth until it is investigated.

It has been investigated. I've certainly listened to enough of your recordings and youtube links, and seen enough of your "blood stains", to know for a fact that you mistakenly attribute significance to textbook examples of audio and visual pareidolia.

If you insist on investigating further I certainly can't stop you, I'll even continue to offer support and suggestions for protocols. I've just seen enough to be confident in my predictions that (a) no evidence for paranormal phenomena will result and (b) you will never accept that your interpretations of your experiences have always been mistaken.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I think the best thing to do is write up a protocol (I've checked the equipment required, it's under £100 for both pieces) and let JREF decide if it's worthwhile?

I'll wait to hear back from Daylightstar for if s/he's got a potential mundane explanation, then I'll modify the protocol that I wrote out above with a little more information. Then it's probably wise to wait a little longer for people to respond to that with comments and criticisms (I've never designed a protocol before, but people posting in this thread have and have knowledge of how such things have worked before).

Once everything's been ironed out, then what you need to do is test the protocol yourself. Sit at home and do everything exactly as the protocol describes. Not even one, single, tiny thing done differently. If you can get a reliable result that way, then and only then should you send the protocol off.

 

[Cassidy]

I vaguely remember seeing something about software that could selectively fade out a particular voice or instrument from a stereo recording based on its position in the stereo image. Is this possible, or am I misremembering?

If there is such software, it can be checked upon and ruled out that I'm not using such hardware?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

If there is such software, it can be checked upon and ruled out that I'm not using such hardware?

You're recording with one microphone. That cannot generate a stereo image, so the effect you describe cannot be an artefact of polarity reversal.

 

[fromdownunder]

I think the best thing to do is write up a protocol

Gee! I wonder why nobody has ever suggested this before.

Norm