Michael Brown shooting II

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Ammonitida said:
They don't have the numerical power or the knowledge of Wilson's whereabouts to lynch him physically, but they certainly would if they could get their hands on him. Darren Wilson is a modern day Emmit Till, except that he's alive (partly thanks to his ethnic group's numerical superiority) and white.
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There is no "they." There are people who are upset at the injustice they perceive, as symbolized by this tragedy. There are people who see this as an opportunity to go "wilding." There are store owners and everyday folks who wish it would all just go away. There are cops and the National Guard who are following orders. There are politicians trying to figure out where to stand and what to say.
 
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eeyore1954 said:
I am not gloating over what happened but the root cause was Michael Brown's behavior that day. I am not saying he deserved it but if he had not committed the crime in store he would not have died that day. And if he had reacted differently when the policeman talked to him he very likely would be alive.
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Of course, but that still doesn't make it the root cause. It is merely a subsequent or contributing cause.

For what it's worth, I agree that you are one of the few not gloating over what is happening.

Ziggurat said:
Don't kid yourself. It's not a trial they wanted, it's that officer punished. If the case was sent to trial and he was acquitted (which he would have been, and which is why not bringing it to trial is the right thing to do), would the mob have been placated? Of course not. Because it's not the trial that they want.
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:rub:
 
lionking said:
Exactly. Brown was running away from Wilson. Running after him shooting in a crowded street might be SOP for Ferguson Police, but not for any decent police force.

Sorry, I should go back lurking. I'm spoiling the glee of those celebrating the shooting and exoneration of Wilson.
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As others have pointed out, this description is wrong.

As I see it, either

A) you have no idea what happened
or
B) you know, but have chosen to misrepresent it

Either way, it doesn't look like you want to have an honest discussion about this incident.
 
marplots said:
The yelling mother who lost her son is paired with the gangsters who tip over a police car. This is, if nothing else, hardly worthy of a forum of critical thinkers and skeptics.
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The yelling mother's partner repeatedly incited the crowd to "burn this ***** down." :rolleyes:
 
marplots said:
No, I didn't see the video. But the problem isn't with calling specific acts criminal and those committing the acts criminals, the problem is when you lump an outraged community into the same bucket to score points and paint the whole class with the broad brush. The yelling mother who lost her son is paired with the gangsters who tip over a police car. This is, if nothing else, hardly worthy of a forum of critical thinkers and skeptics.
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Perhaps you should default to the idea that when we refer to then as animals, we're referring to the looters and criminals.
 
Upchurch said:
Lynch mobs prize trials?
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They don't want a trial, they want a conviction for murder. Although if they had the chance they'd kill him on the spot, no doubt in my mind about that.

This certainly isn't about justice, the due process of law has run its course. But the lynch mob is unhappy with the result of the justice system, thus the continued protesting, looting, and burning.
 
WildCat said:
They don't want a trial, they want a conviction for murder. Although if they had the chance they'd kill him on the spot, no doubt in my mind about that.
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No doubt, huh. Thus, the power of faith persists.

WildCat said:
This certainly isn't about justice, the due process of law has run its course. But the lynch mob is unhappy with the result of the justice system, thus the continued protesting, looting, and burning.
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This is absolutely about justice and the justice system, just not the limited context to which you are referring.
 
NoahFence said:
Uh....

Those of us who have?
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Search this thread for the word "animal." There are 8 posts that use that word. The only one calling anyone "animals" was a poster making a strawman argument, here:

Cl1mh4224rd said:
If they were to call these very same people savages and animals on any other day, they'd be rightfully mocked and/or shunned for such blatant bigotry.

If you're going to call these people animals for their current behavior, you have to be quite comfortable with the idea that they are animals, always; not just different from the rest of us, but inferior. After all, a lion is no less an animal when it's resting in the shade of a tree than when it's tearing flesh from a fresh kill.

Christmas comes early for the bigots, if only because they feel they can publicly and gleefully express their bigotry.

ETA: There's a saying that people are revealed in crisis. I propose that people are also revealed in victory.
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Similarly, unless the search function is defective, no one in this thread has used the word "savages" outside of the above strawman argument.
 
Tony Stark said:
I suppose you could assert that both Wilson and Witness 10 are liars. Though this begs the question of why they have the same version of events if they are both lying. I've can't think of any plausible reason for why they have the same story besides the obvious one. Witness 10 watched the incident take place and happened how they say it did. If you can think of any others, please tell me, I would like to know if I'm wrong
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There is no plausible reason except that it's the truth. The chances that two completely independent witnesses agree on a version of events down to the smallest detail (including the odd movement - probably hitching up his pants - that Brown makes before starting his charge) is vanishingly small unless they're both faithfully recounting what actually transpired. In contrast, the fact that witnesses who have been discussing the event with each other (both in person and through the media) agree on a narrative is utterly worthless. Human memories are terribly fragile and are easily influenced and distorted by suggestions by others, as well as emotional and social pressures.

If you add in the fact that Wilson's and Witness 10's version of events actually matches the forensic evidence quite well, it's effectively dispositive. Virtually the only way it couldn't be true is if there was a conspiracy to protect Wilson, and Witness 10 was in on it, either wittingly or unwittingly.
 
carlitos said:
Search this thread for the word "animal." There are 8 posts that use that word. The only one calling anyone "animals" was a poster making a strawman argument, here:



Similarly, unless the search function is defective, no one in this thread has used the word "savages" outside of the above strawman argument.
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Well I called them animals. If you missed it, here it is again.
They're animals.
 
Upchurch said:
No doubt, huh. Thus, the power of faith persists.
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It's a reasoned conclusion based on the evidence I have seen. I don't think the mob burning and looting would suddenly show reason and restraint if they came across Darren Wilson.


Upchurch said:
This is absolutely about justice and the justice system, just not the limited context to which you are referring.
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What part of the justice system failed in your opinion? Do we as a society put people on trial for serious crimes not because there's evidence a crime has been committed, but because mobs in the street demand it? Convicted because the mobs demand it?

If 100,000 conservatives started burning and looting DC demanding that Obama be arrested and tried for treason for his "illegal" executive orders on immigration would you agree that he should be?

We don't do justice by mob rule for good reason, we do it according to due process of law. And you have shown no evidence that due process of law was not followed in this case, nor have you even bothered with one single post thus far discussing the evidence presented. I guess you still haven't had time to look at even a few of the key pieces of evidence presented to the Grand Jury, despite having lots of time to post here about everything but what the evidence shows.
 
Upchurch said:
That's not even close to the root cause of what happened.

The root cause is a combination of a community that doesn't trust their own government/justice system and a government/justice system that doesn't respect their own community (or portions thereof). It's a negative feedback loop where every bad behavior confirms the bias of the other group, allowing for a lot of legitimate and short-sighted finger pointing, and its been building for generations. I'm not talking about just Ferguson.
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I think you're referring to a positive feedback loop, even though it has negative consequences. The only solution I can think of is to use overwhelming numbers of police (probably 2-3x the current numbers per capita in crime-ridden urban areas). Strength in numbers will result in a more cowed criminal element, and a more relaxed, friendly, and responsive police force. You'll get positive feedback in the opposite direction (virtuous circle vs vicious cycle). The problem of course is that it's exorbitantly expensive.
 
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