Zohran Mamdani

[Emily's Cat]

There are other issues, energy poverty, can they afford to cook? Do have access to a stove, pans, utensils, a fridge. Microwaves can seem the cheap cooking option they are cheap and cook quickly. Do they know how to make simple nutritious meals? If your power has been cut off, take out food may be your only option, along with bread and biscuits.

Also time. If you can't afford a car or otherwise can't drive. You're likely to be relying on public transport. The jobs you can take will be more geographically limited, and the commute is likely to be more unreliable and take longer when you include timetables. You are going to have to shop for food more frequently because you can't carry so much home on the bus and anyway, there's a big difference between coming home from a 12 hour shift on public transport when you don't have a proper cooker and coming home from 8 hours in the office to a well stocked kitchen

I know I'm getting extremely cynical in my old age... but this really sounds like a great recipe for creating a subclass of people who are completely dependent on the government and essentially captives. They can't afford the basics, and they can't afford to move away, they're completely subject to the local government to keep them alive.

It's all the negatives of a company town, with the added layer of government bureacracy.

 

[theprestige]

It's all the negatives of a company town, with the added layer of government bureacracy.

"You didn't build that." To socialists, we're all living in a company town.

 

[kookbreaker]

I know I'm getting extremely cynical in my old age... but this really sounds like a great recipe for creating a subclass of people who are completely dependent on the government and essentially captives. They can't afford the basics, and they can't afford to move away, they're completely subject to the local government to keep them alive.

As opposed to what we have now?

 

[theprestige]

As opposed to what we have now?

"We're going to do better!"

Does the exact same thing, but with a blue filter in front of the gaslight instead of a red one.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Pathetic for self declared Capitalists to pretend to complain about Company Towns - it's exactly what you believe in

 

[kookbreaker]

Mistake

 

[kookbreaker]

"We're going to do better!"

Does the exact same thing, but with a blue filter in front of the gaslight instead of a red one.

No, really, explain to me how adding stores to a neighborhood somehow makes things more restrictive for its residents. Do explain it to me with detail, please.

 

[kookbreaker]

Some of you folks have never lived in high-density US cities and it shows.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Pathetic for self declared Capitalists to pretend to complain about Company Towns - it's exactly what you believe in

Do you enjoy arguing with imaginary opponents?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Some of you folks have never lived in high-density US cities and it shows.

Some of us have and hated every moment of being packed in like sardines in a town that almost always smells like piss and there's no actual nature or quiet or solitude to be had.

 

[theprestige]

No, really, explain to me how adding stores to a neighborhood somehow makes things more restrictive for its residents. Do explain it to me with detail, please.

I'm not the one saying it's no worse than the status quo.

 

[kookbreaker]

Some of us have and hated every moment of being packed in like sardines in a town that almost always smells like piss and there's no actual nature or quiet or solitude to be had.

Never said you had to like it. I'm just saying you are speaking like you know how things work in cities but obviously have no clue.

 

[kookbreaker]

I'm not the one saying it's no worse than the status quo.

That would not be an explanation.

 

[jimbob]

I know I'm getting extremely cynical in my old age... but this really sounds like a great recipe for creating a subclass of people who are completely dependent on the government and essentially captives. They can't afford the basics, and they can't afford to move away, they're completely subject to the local government to keep them alive.

It's all the negatives of a company town, with the added layer of government bureacracy.

I don't really see how you get to that.

We were discussing the problems not the solutions.

But addressing food deserts potentially might help some areas. In many countries, that could lead to more money being spent in the immediate locality by the locals

I think zoning laws might also add problems that many other countries don't have, especially with difficulties in getting food. Even in suburban areas there are often shops within walking distance, which means that there's a local economy where people live, which would benefit if the poorer* local inhabitants became well off.


*Rich people can afford to save. Poorer people tend to have less discretionary spending so extra income trends to go on slightly less urgent essentials that they had been avoiding

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Do you enjoy arguing with imaginary opponents?

Just pointing out that you are not actually a Capitalist, you are a Market Socialist if you believe that Company Towns must not exist.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Never said you had to like it. I'm just saying you are speaking like you know how things work in cities but obviously have no clue.

What exactly did I say about how things work in cities that is incorrect? Please provide a reference, because I don't think my couple of posts about urban food deserts also being related to property and commercial costs signalled a lack of understanding of cities.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I don't really see how you get to that.

A bit hyperbolic sure. But poor people can't afford electricity to cook with or for a fridge, can't afford independent transportation so they're limited geographically for work and services, and can only buy as much as they can carry so need to go to the store more often... so let's have the government give them food so they can stay confined to a small geographic area and be entirely dependent on the government to provide their needs. That was part of the problem with company towns - employees and their families ended up stuck, low enough wages that they couldn't afford to move away, tied to services provided by a single entity, and essentially trapped. I don't think swapping out a company for the government makes that any better.

We were discussing the problems not the solutions.

But addressing food deserts potentially might help some areas. In many countries, that could lead to more money being spent in the immediate locality by the locals

I think zoning laws might also add problems that many other countries don't have, especially with difficulties in getting food. Even in suburban areas there are often shops within walking distance, which means that there's a local economy where people live, which would benefit if the poorer* local inhabitants became well off.

There's a lot I don't know, but I tend to think that zoning laws and spreading people out a bit would help.

High density urban housing necessarily creates a need for more and more services (including groceries) closer together. So until we get self-contained arcologies with the grocer on floor 3, there's going to be problems.

The cities where you don't see grocery problems are ones that have high population and large square mileage. Lots of people, but not densely packed. This allows services to be interspersed among people in a way that makes them more accessible to more people.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Just pointing out that you are not actually a Capitalist, you are a Market Socialist if you believe that Company Towns must not exist.

Are you happy pointing out that I'm not something I never claimed to be? Don't let me get in the way of you slaying that dragon... but please don't damage the windmill in the process - we kind of need it.

 

[The Atheist]

Alternatively... maybe we shouldn't pack people in like rats in a way that makes it near impossible for services to be provide in a reasonable distance?

Once you've invented time travel and have gone back a century to change how NY looks, let me know.

I prefer to deal with reality than what-ifs.

 

[kookbreaker]

What exactly did I say about how things work in cities that is incorrect? Please provide a reference, because I don't think my couple of posts about urban food deserts also being related to property and commercial costs signalled a lack of understanding of cities.

"I know I'm getting extremely cynical in my old age... but this really sounds like a great recipe for creating a subclass of people who are completely dependent on the government and essentially captives. They can't afford the basics, and they can't afford to move away, they're completely subject to the local government to keep them alive."

And for the record, it wasn't just you.