Yellow Bamboo for real?

I have just watched that video for the dozenth time TRYING DESPERATELY to see ANY reality involved.

:roll: :roll: :roll: {wipes tears of laughter from eyes, lever myself from floor where I have collapsed helpless with laughter}

What a truly apalling and singular joke of an acting job! I don't think I've seen such an awful case of bad acting since Elvis in "Girl Happy"!

Have a look at him when he is lying on the ground - twitching like he's been electrified or something! Oh my!! {falls down again, laughing some more} :roll: :roll: :roll:

*snort* hee hee hee! {must get a drink now...}
 
From James Randi (pg. 2 this thread)...

Just recall that my protocol required that Mr. Joko Tri simply walk up and "tap" their "superman" Nyoman Serengen on the leg with a small bamboo stick, which was not the protocol followed
"My protocol"? :confused:

I thought the protocol had to be mutually agreed upon.

The whole description of this "test" is so incredibly sloppy (including the dubious credibility of the guy responsible for doing the test for JREF)...really, it boggles the mind!

No wonder the documentation of these preliminary challenges is so lacking. :confused:
 
Clancie said:

"My protocol"? :confused:

I thought the protocol had to be mutually agreed upon.

The whole description of this "test" is so incredibly sloppy (including the dubious credibility of the guy responsible for doing the test for JREF)...really, it boggles the mind!

No wonder the documentation of these preliminary challenges is so lacking. :confused:
Clancie, what would you call one party's "protocol" in a multi-party exchange? Randi's viewpoint and the controls that he (JREF) wants to put onto a test are "his protocols". The other party in this soon to be agreed upon test can either accept his protocols, talk about different protocols, or not accept them. If they dont accept them, then the 2 groups are not in agreement.

I agree that documentation is lacking and that it would be great if there were documentation.
 
Lord Kenneth said:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=wand

Yes, by most definitions a bamboo wand would be a small bamboo stick, not what they were holding.
I agree but "most" is not the same as "all". More improtantly, Randi is saying "recall my protocol" and when even he can't recall the protocol accurately. "SMALL" bamboo stick is different than bamboo wand which could be interpreted more loosely. Certainly you noticed "small stick" was not the definition at dictionary.com and I learned myself the only specific length referenced there for wands is apparently 6ft ;). To show how loosely the word "wand" could be interpreted consider that 2nd defintion at dictionary.com for "wand" says "scepter", the first definition for "scepter" says "staff". I think what Joko used could be fairly called a staff . . .

But does it matter at all if the how long the stick was anyways???

Lord Kenneth said:
They clearly did not pass the preliminary. It looks very much like he either fell intentionally or was pushed-- I'm guessing pushed because someone who looks like they are wearing black comes from the side and knocked him down.
I really can't see the person in black pushing him that you are talking about. I see a guy pushing him in black about as much as I see the quantum flux ki forcefield . . .
[ ok, I enlarged the vid and went through it frame by frame. there is an odd greyish streak behind Joko right as starts to fall.I'm not sure at all what is. At first it looked just like something in the bakcground reflecting funny as the camera panned to follow the action but it seems to sort of follow the begginning of Joko's fall down (3 frames all towards the end of the first second). Looking closely I really don't think it's a person pushing him, but it obviously can't be quantum flux ki forcefield either. Cause the forcefield would half to be in front of him of course . :D )

A "pusher" wouldn't explain Joko's claim of "dizziness" and the weird way he stays down plus he had witnesses and Joko has said the bad lighting was his fault so it seems like even if he was pushed Joko would have had to been in cahoots with YB, so why not just have him pretend to fall?

As far as passing the test: one of the requirements of the million dollar challenege is that results need to be obvious.

"All tests must be designed in such a way that the results are self-evident, and no judging process is required."
http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html

Regardless of any speculation it is obvious that the YB guy wasn't hit by JREF represenative with a stick so the self-evident result is YB passes.

Randi may now engage in legalese speek to avoid calling that THE preliminary test but since the YB filed a claim (1), YB and JREF agreed to a protocol (2)and YB passed according to the protocol (3) it seems pretty straightforward to me.

I think the JREF may legitimately (VERY) seriously question the credibility of Joko Tri at this point, but the reliance upon one individual was a flaw in the protocol that Randi agreed to. He can't back out of it now, he should focus on making the final test completely trustworthy (and videotaped with better lighting :) ).

The whole point of the million dollar challenge is to tell psychics to demonstate there skills or STFU. Now YB passes the first test and is "demanding" Randi come to Bali. Anyone see the odd inversion there? YB is aggresively challenging JREF and Randi is stalling, why not just goto Bali and whack the guy himself?
 
I have to agree that if Yellow Bamboo has followed all the steps for filing a claim up to this point, then this should be considered a pass on the preliminary test. If not, then it shouldn't. While I understand the sentiment that it would be sort of a cheap pass, the alternative is legally pernicious.

What I wonder is why the camera was zoomed in so far. It's difficult to see what's happening around Mr. Tri. Without the benefit of knowing what was going on off-camera, it is much easier for YB to claim that they used their "paranormal powerz!" to knock him down. Ideally, there should be multiple cameras filming from different angles.
 
So MUCH analysis for such a PALTRY piece of evidence! I don't mean that it is just 12 secs long, but that it is so obviously a piece of really poor theatre. If I may say so, it's positively cartoonish in its sheer childish amateurism.

As I am usually sceptical of such twaddle, I pay attention to the details and apply such guiding principles as Occam's Razor and "common sense". And what do I find that accurately describes what we have seen so far?

Answer: A blatantly childish attempt to emulate a single scene from kung-fu movie using an el cheapo video camera. Nothing more! Children aged in single digits can create better movies than this, and often do. There's no science, no supernatural powers, not even a decent plotline! Certainly no attempt to show the complete story in detail.

Sheesh! It's KRAP! Don't you get it??? :rolleyes:
 
Several things from this short video clip stick out to me:

1. if there are other people running with you and falling down, that might be enough to make you fall down to, especially if there are other pressures (a large group of watchers, a reporter, poor stopping ability from the sand(?), not having shoes on for traction, other people(s) running behind you, barking dog or gulls(?), ocean waves(?), someone yelling at you, doing a hard to stop overhead strike, running with the staff first extended behind you then rapidly bringing it infront of you, and bright light shining on you at night(?)).

2. the strike that the man tried to give with the staff was a powerful two-handed overhead strike. These are the type of strikes that you use to hit somebody in the head, not to merely tap them. I would think that someone wouldn't want to hit anyone with one of these strikes. To tap someone, I'd want to use a side-strike to the lower part of the body (lower than the neck) or a light thrust. Falling down to the ground corresponds to the natural movement of such an overhead strike. In fact, getting low to the ground is the natural endpoint of such a strike.

3. it is difficult to tell just how many people, total, are rushing the master. There are definitely two people. It is impossible to tell if there are any more behind or to the right of these two.

4. it doesn't appear that the attacker's angle to the master changed throughout the video. That is, it appears the attacker was running in a straight line the whole time, but in a line that was to the left of the master. I noticed this because it seems that the attacker could have reached the master at the end given the length of staff that he had, had he been on line. Could the person on the attackers left have caused (indirectly) the attacker to unconsciously move to his right, thus being not aligned with the master?

5. the attacker fell down forward, but it appears that the person running on the attacker's left fell down backwards (based on ending position of this person's feet). How could the same force applied at the same time from the same source knock people down in completely different ways?

6. it looks like the attacker, after he is on the ground and on his back, twitches a few times with his left shoulder. It would be interesting to see the reactions of the other people.

7. I thought it was kind of odd that the attacker, from what I can tell, didn't let out his own kiai (a yell and quick exhale that some martial artists give when they strike/block powerfully).

8. Do we know the mantra that he was required to learn?
 
Zep said:
I have just watched that video for the dozenth time TRYING DESPERATELY to see ANY reality involved.

Have a look at him when he is lying on the ground - twitching like he's been electrified or something! Oh my!! {falls down again, laughing some more} :roll: :roll: :roll:


I agree mate, the rolling on the ground reminds of kids playing cowboys and indians, or maybe the Sheriff of Nottingham's men in Erol Flynn's Robin Hood film, very overacted!

Neil
 
Clancie said:

The whole description of this "test" is so incredibly sloppy (including the dubious credibility of the guy responsible for doing the test for JREF)...really, it boggles the mind!

I agree, it's a terrible state of affairs!

All you need to do is sit down one afternoon, and dream up a kooky paranormal ability. Shoot some dodgey video clips, register an internet domain, get the website online, post some fake testimonials in newsgroups, etc etc. I'm not saying YB case is as simple as this, but it's not far off. The end result this whole community is thrown into debate and a lot of time is wasted.

Of course the big culprit in creating this hoo har is the throw away comment from Randi in his weekly commentry.

Neil
 
I guess it depends on what sort of rules have been placed on this preliminary test. Was the protocol first described by Randi agreed by both parties? Did it say anything about there being other people around? What assurances were there that the subject would not be hypnotised? We don't know, but Mr Randi does. It seems odd that the "self evident" part of it should simply be the inability of the attacker to hit the subject with the stick when there are many ways of making this happen that do not involve paranormal abilities (the subject could be a really fast sprinter for a start!)

If the protocol was broken then the test is null and void. If these possibilities were not precluded in the protocol and the JREF gave no provision for decent video evidence then it's a slap on the wrist for the JREF for not being thorough and a warning to close the loopholes for the real thing.
 
It reminds me of Derren Brown knocking the wind out of a martial artist without touching him on one of his shows. First of all he did it in front of him, and then he did it behind him so the martial artist wouldn't pick up visual clues. The result both times? The martial artist appeared winded. No magic powers involved.
 
fsol said:
It reminds me of Derren Brown knocking the wind out of a martial artist without touching him on one of his shows. First of all he did it in front of him, and then he did it behind him so the martial artist wouldn't pick up visual clues. The result both times? The martial artist appeared winded. No magic powers involved.

This makes me think of Bruce Lee.

(Bare with me, there is a tenuous connection to YB somewhere in here!)

On a recent documentary they described how he upset the established Chinese kung fu world when he started to disregard a lot of the old pointless, fanciful and sometimes plain silly and ineffective kung fu techniques by beginning to form his own more pragmatic martial arts system, which eventually became Jeet Kune Do. Angered at this disregard, the Hong Kong kung fu establishment made a deal with him:

"If you can beat our best traditional kung fu man in a fair fight." they told him, "You can teach your martial arts however you want". So their best man fly's out to the USA, where Bruce promptly *kicks* the guys butt. I mention this to re-enforce how good of a martial artist he was, and not just a movie star.

Bruce jogged and trained almost every day of this adult life, he looked after his diet, and physically he represented the pinnacle of what can be achieved by martial arts.

But that really is just half of the story. The guy was also an intellectual. Lecturing in Philosophy at university, he was extremely well read. He had an extensive library on various subjects, and he had read and re-read, took on board or dismissed as irrelevant virtually every oriental martial arts and philosophy book he could lay his hands on.

So now I'm getting to my point but before I do, I need to mention that you can not dismiss Bruce Lee as being a 'westerner' and therefore unable to comprehend the eastern mind-set needed for belief in action at a distance such as the YB claims: as his roots and thoughts lay firmly in the orient. I say this because from what I've read on the YB threads, this criticism is pointed at us skeptics: "We are westerners therefore can't ever understand the YB claims & beliefs". Bruce ate, drank and breathed all martial arts practice, history and eastern philosophy, so that argument can't apply to him.

So here's my point: When Bruce was show casing his supreme martial arts skills on 70’s TV shows i.e. knocking over grown men with a 1 inch punches, kicking in two a 1 inch thick freely dangling plank of wood, etc etc, were there any references or claims about being able to do this without making contact with the subject? Of course not.

Oops.

Even with decades of training and research he some how missed the amazing fact that you could go to a few YB Full Moon ceremonies and suddenly be able to injure people without even making contact with them? Not likely, the *truth* is that the greatest martial artist ever (IMO) knew the limitations of martial arts, the world we live in and the limits of human abilities just as well as we skeptics do. And he accepted these limitations.

The YB claims can not work. Demonstrations and examination of the ability for the human mind to effect physical bodies at a distance by thoughts alone have always failed during objective testing, and it'll take a lot more than these silly claims for the rational world to forget this.

These powers do not exist apart from on movie screens, video games and the pages of comic books and that is where they rightly belong.

While big kudos obviously goes to any martial art claiming things like this, and no doubt it will get them a lot of new-age subscribers, aswell as subscriptions from gullible martial artists desperate to get 'one up' on their opponants. These claims are pure fantasy and I can't wait to see them shown for what they really are.

Oh if things were different: I can think of nothing more in the world that I'd rather watch than Bruce Lee facing off to a YB master. If I owned $1million myself I'd bet that no spooky action at a distance showed up in that very quick and decisive fight.

Neil
 
OK, I watched the video.

First off, it was a very bad video; very bad lighting.

Second, the attackee did not stop the blow. The attacker swung a pretty good blow at the mat, and gave it a good thwack. The atackee took a half-step to the side. This is pretty common in martial arts that stay in the dojo and do not concern themselves with real world fighting, where the students are taught to go along, consciously or not. How convenient for the attacker that despite being knocked unconscious to the point of twitching, he was able to roll face-up after collapsing, for comfort and for the camera.

My impression is that the attacker is in on the stunt.

I would like to hear more details of communication between the tester and Randi.
 
Oh if things were different: I can think of nothing more in the world that I'd rather watch than Bruce Lee facing off to a YB master. If I owned $1million myself I'd bet that no spooky action at a distance showed up in that very quick and decisive fight.

That would be great :)
 
Yes, either he was pushed or not (looks like he could have been pushed on my computer, it's dark so it's hard to see), or he could have been acting.

It seems like Randi may have been duped, anyways. It appears that this attacker is in on it, either way. If the attacker is an independent tester then why he is wearing the Yellow Bamboo uniform?

I'm confused. This is very odd.
 
The reason for the yellow shirt is that it was one of the stipulations of the test. The guinea pig had to join the group and be initiated.
 
nwmadden, the Bamboonies would stand little chance against ANY proponent of martial arts from anywhere in the world, let alone Bruce Lee. I'm pretty certain that a local silat learner could deal with one of these guys fairly promptly. And I expect that even I, with my still-learning-karate brown belt, would have little trouble walking up to the YB "master" and giving him a good slapping for being so silly. Oh, I may fall down on the way, but it would only be from helpless laughter!
 
Posted by LeFevre

Clancie, what would you call one party's "protocol" in a multi-party exchange?

LeFevre,
I think we have a difference over whether Randi is proposing a protocol or repeating one from an existing agreement (I favor the latter interpretation of his comments).

If they've already been agreed to, "the" protocol sounds good as opposed to the one-sided "my" protocol.
Posted by LeFevre

The other party in this soon to be agreed upon test can either accept his protocols, talk about different protocols, or not accept them. If they dont accept them, then the 2 groups are not in agreement.

Well, as I read the "Commentary", this is already beyond the application/protocol stage and into the "here's-the-JREF-rep-to-take-a-look-at-what-you-can-do" preliminary testing stage.

Actually, reading "Commentary" I really feel that I owe Randi an apology, if this is (as it seems) the preliminary test and JREF rightly honors it as such.

After reading the Sylvia Challenge, I always thought Randi had a bit of "flim-flam" up his sleeve with the prelims, particularly in intentionally proposing protocol that did not rule out the possiblity of collusion (a huge design flaw in the "SC", imo, but I guess that's neither here nor there...)

Instead, with YB, Randi seems to have been a bit scammed himself, if this is actually the test. The JREF test giver seems quite unknown to Randi personally, not particularly credible, and the circumstances of the test itself (including becoming a member of Yellow Bamboo, fasting the day before, etc. etc.) create lots of possibilities for "things not being as they seem" on the part of Yellow Bamboo when the test is given and "reported results" achieved.

I never pictured Randi as ever being on the receiving end of a bit of flim-flam, but from the bit we know about the YB test, so far at least, it appears he very well may be. :eek:
 
Yellow Bamboo's claim ->
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