Yellow Bamboo Challenge

[petpower_2k]

No the role of the assistant is more than that! Look at



What exactly are they doing? Calling names? Pinching?

among other things yes

 

[Flo]

Well, yes and no. Peter specifically stated that the assistant decides when the attacker is angry enough. Once that has happened, the attacker can start running. And then, there can be no doubt that the attacker was angry enough.

How we determine this level of anger, is a good question, though.

Are you trained in martial arts ? Have you talked about this "test" with a trained, high level, martial artist ?

To me (40 years in Japanese martial arts, 5th dan Kendo, 1st dan aikido, years of judo, competitions galore), the whole procedure is pure BS:

- One of the first thing you learn in martial arts is never to get "angry", or at least never to show anger, it clouds jugdement and impairs your reactions.

- There is no single school of combat that teaches you to run 20 meters before you hit your opponent. There is no way you can correctly assess distances and the correct moment of attack (ma-ai) that way, whereas the guy waiting has all the time in the world to find out when and how you'll attack and devise a way to evade or trick you. Randi is right when he recommends that you just walk calmly towards the guy and just touch him (the colored chalk bit is good).

- 30 seconds of continuous serious punching ? BS ! Look at any real fight (instead of MA movies where the heroes can keep fighting at maximum intensity for minutes on end), almost nobody keeps punching that long. 10 seconds then careful observation, then a few seconds more, etc.

In short, either those guys are planning tricks, or they are seriously deluded as to what they are doing. Send someone really trained in martial arts.

 

[Ossai]

Flo

"dojo-crashing" or in other words, visit dojos and training centers of other disciplines (I suggest judo, mainstream full-contact karate, boxing, K1, Kendo) and claim you can lick anyone who dares to attack you.

What is K1? I’m never heard of that one before?

And isn’t dojo-crashing what the Gracies did to establish themselves?

Ossai

 

[Atlas]

I think Flo makes good points.

It sure sounds like any test could be done easily inside 10 seconds. Five to cover the distance and 5 more to hit or fall down.

Are you considering making it the best 3 of 5?

 

[CFLarsen]

I think that the YB person and assistant need to be searched for hidden devices, and that nobody - not even the assistant - may come closer to the attacker than a certain distance, like, say, 5 meters. We need to be sure that the assistant cannot throw an invisible thread around the legs of the attacker or fire a dart or whatever.

Naturally.

 

[CFLarsen]

I would like to add that the precautions are also to protect the YB from accusations made later if the test succeeds.

Of course.

 

[CFLarsen]

I think all of your points are good.

Thank you.

we can remove the 30 second punching thing, simply let the attacker attack, and if he hits I loose the test, if attacker is unable to hit YB person or attacker is knocked down then we win.

I don't like the "knocked down" part. I am wary of pushing, tripping methods, etc. To keep it simple, why don't we just check if the YB person has blue chalk on him?

About determining if the attacker is angry or not.
I believe it is impossible to know for sure how angry the attacker is.
Since it is impossible to know the intention of the attacker, all we can do is to do our best, and then see what happen.
Before and after the test we can ask the attacker if he is angry, and if he was angry during the attack. thats all we can do.

Very well: The attacker decides if he was angry.

 

[CFLarsen]

among other things yes

You need to supply a complete list of things that the assistant and the YB person will do to the attacker. Then, we will see what is acceptable.

Any physical contact with the attacker is out, though.

 

[CFLarsen]

Are you trained in martial arts ? Have you talked about this "test" with a trained, high level, martial artist ?

We are in contact with martial arts experts. One will be the attacker, not me. I don't hit people.

- One of the first thing you learn in martial arts is never to get "angry", or at least never to show anger, it clouds jugdement and impairs your reactions.

Perhaps. But we are not talking about a prolonged match, we are talking about a martial arts expert simply touching - or hitting someone who will not fight back. That should not be a problem.

- There is no single school of combat that teaches you to run 20 meters before you hit your opponent. There is no way you can correctly assess distances and the correct moment of attack (ma-ai) that way, whereas the guy waiting has all the time in the world to find out when and how you'll attack and devise a way to evade or trick you. Randi is right when he recommends that you just walk calmly towards the guy and just touch him (the colored chalk bit is good).

I don't see any reasons as to why the attacker has to come running, either. We'll talk to the martial arts expert and see what he says.

- 30 seconds of continuous serious punching ? BS ! Look at any real fight (instead of MA movies where the heroes can keep fighting at maximum intensity for minutes on end), almost nobody keeps punching that long. 10 seconds then careful observation, then a few seconds more, etc.

Peter has already agreed to drop this.

In short, either those guys are planning tricks, or they are seriously deluded as to what they are doing. Send someone really trained in martial arts.

We will.

 

[Flo]

Flo
What is K1? I’m never heard of that one before?

And isn’t dojo-crashing what the Gracies did to establish themselves?

Ossai

K1 is a recent form where "everything goes", very popular in Japan, mixing bosers, judokas, sumo wrestlers, etc. Gracie recently defeated Akebono (aka Chad Rowan, ex sumo yokozuna) in a K1 event. Gracie is ~80 kg, Ake 220 kg ...

Yes, dojo-crashing is what they did. It is what Jigoro Kano did in Japan to establish judo, too.

 

[CFLarsen]

I think Flo makes good points.

It sure sounds like any test could be done easily inside 10 seconds. Five to cover the distance and 5 more to hit or fall down.

Are you considering making it the best 3 of 5?

Depending on how long one trial takes, I don't see any reason why we couldn't have more. However, there will be a set time limit within all pre-agreed tests will take place. Failure to complete the tests in full means that YB has failed.

I will not have a test that lasts many hours into the night.

 

[Flo]

We are in contact with martial arts experts. One will be the attacker, not me. I don't hit people.

you should try, you've no idea how liberating it is. It's the main reason why I still enjoy kendo: you are encouraged to hit people on the head with a big stick while yelling out loud and stamping your foot (if we could also slam doors, it would be perfect).

Perhaps. But we are not talking about a prolonged match, we are talking about a martial arts expert simply touching - or hitting someone who will not fight back. That should not be a problem.

I know anger should not be a problem for a trained martial artist. The problem I see is with the bamboozled people: on the one hand, if they really think only someone angry can really hit hard, they really don't know much about what fighting sports are really about. On the other hand, getting their attacker angry amounts to a trick in order to make him lose control of the procedure.

I don't see any reasons as to why the attacker has to come running, either. We'll talk to the martial arts expert and see what he says.

As I wrote, I see two: such a condition ensures the attack will lack force and precision, and it gives ample time to trick/distract the attacker.

Another point: if they really believe there is a form of one on one combat where people start to run at each other from so far apart, it just shows how bogus the whole concept is.

 

[CFLarsen]

you should try, you've no idea how liberating it is. It's the main reason why I still enjoy kendo: you are encouraged to hit people on the head with a big stick while yelling out loud and stamping your foot (if we could also slam doors, it would be perfect).

I stick(!) to yelling and stamping my foot. Books are more liberating to me.

I know anger should not be a problem for a trained martial artist. The problem I see is with the bamboozled people: on the one hand, if they really think only someone angry can really hit hard, they really don't know much about what fighting sports are really about. On the other hand, getting their attacker angry amounts to a trick in order to make him lose control of the procedure.

Peter has agreed that the attacker alone decides if he is angry.

As I wrote, I see two: such a condition ensures the attack will lack force and precision, and it gives ample time to trick/distract the attacker.

Nope: The attacker can stop right before the YB person and focus, before he punches. But, let's see what the attacker says.

Another point: if they really believe there is a form of one on one combat where people start to run at each other from so far apart, it just shows how bogus the whole concept is.

Perhaps.

 

[jmercer]

Originally posted by Flo Another point: if they really believe there is a form of one on one combat where people start to run at each other from so far apart, it just shows how bogus the whole concept is. [/B]

Argh - I cannot believe that I'm going to actually write something that supports YB in any way whatsoever... but I guess I'm going to have to point something out.

Prior to the invention of firearms, people did charge each other from far apart to engage in hand-to-hand combat. (In fact, if you think about it, non-throwing spears and other weapons were designed as stand-off weapons to keep charging attackers at a safe distance.)

Granted, we're not talking "one-on-one" as in martial artists dueling - but a lot of the basic martial arts taught to soldiers in China pre-firearms (if they were lucky to even GET training) had to do with dealing with charging opponents. Special weapons were even developed for that purpose, such as the "horse cutters", etc. There are also a number of attacks (noteably kicks) that involve running forward rapidly. (Not from 20 meters away, obviously, but you might have to run to the battle to get close enough to use the attack.)

I feel pretty safe in saying that at least some martial arts training involved crossing distances rapidly to engage the enemy effectively.

Other than this one very minor point, I totally agree with Flo. (And before anyone asks, yeah, I've been a practicing martial artist for about 15 years in the internal arts - and not the "woo-woo" stuff, either. I get into the ring at times, and spar with people from different arts.)

 

[thaiboxerken]

Why don't we just schedule a ring fight between this retard and a fighter? MMA rules or kickboxing, it shouldn't matter. Let's see if his powers work in a more live situation. Screw this testing stuff, it's obvious that he's not sincere. I just want to see him get whooped up on.

 

[jmercer]

Why don't we just schedule a ring fight between this retard and a fighter? MMA rules or kickboxing, it shouldn't matter. Let's see if his powers work in a more live situation. Screw this testing stuff, it's obvious that he's not sincere. I just want to see him get whooped up on.

I'm with you.

 

[CFLarsen]

The videos will be made public.

 

[Atlas]

Why don't we just schedule a ring fight between this retard and a fighter? MMA rules or kickboxing, it shouldn't matter. Let's see if his powers work in a more live situation. Screw this testing stuff, it's obvious that he's not sincere. I just want to see him get whooped up on.

Hold the testosterone Thai.

It seems obvious to me that there is some kind of philosophy behind the YB claims. I wish I knew more. But they must believe in an extensible chi force or something like that.

They have convinced themselves that anger makes the attacker vulnerable to a manipulation of his chi and enables the YB practitioner to destabilize the attacker to the point where he falls down.

The force shows up most dramatically if the attacker is already unbalanced, that is, running. When the runner is on one foot with plenty of forward inertia and not concentrating on his balance he falls easily to the YB chi "suggestion".

In fact, I can believe that an inexperienced attacker might be susceptible to a juke at a propitious moment. My football team, the Vikings, seem to have a defense that is very susceptible to a deft runner's juke moves and our defensive players often must pick themselves off the turf after whiffing the tackle. The term is "faked outa yer jock". I think the YB guys believe in a real force that emanates during the "fake" that is destablizing. That is the woo aspect to their belief, but the effect is surely seen in Sunday afternoon football and other sports.

I noticed the effect myself growing up as a smart aleck little kid. The bigger clumsier kids would chase me and pound on me but occasionally I would step out of the way with perfect agility and timing and the ruffian would tumble earthward.

YB probably teaches it's students that they can develop that as a martial art through chi manipulation but it doesn't seem much beyond playground moves to me.

What's good is that they are willing to test their philosophy and skill and I think that's a good thing. Especially if they learn that they are only safe from clumsy big kids and not from a determined attacker.

 

[thatguywhojuggles]

About determining if the attacker is angry or not.
I believe it is impossible to know for sure how angry the attacker is.
Since it is impossible to know the intention of the attacker, all we can do is to do our best, and then see what happen.
Before and after the test we can ask the attacker if he is angry, and if he was angry during the attack. thats all we can do.

It was suggested before, but I think petpower's comment above pretty much sums it up. He clearly states that "it is impossible to know the intention of the attacker." If they fail, they will just say the "assistant" was wrong and the attacker was not angry enough for the magic to work.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I think getting his butt kicked in a fight will wake him up to the reality of the situation.