Ye likes Hitler

[Puppycow]

I disagree with that. He didn't deny the Holocaust, just the raw numbers. I don't think that makes him a denier that horrible atrocity occurred. A lot of people question the numbers.

It's an estimate, and the most widely accepted one, not a precise number. Do you really want to debate this?

I don't see Kanye as having evil intent; I see him as relatively ignorant and insane.

Willfully ignorant. A piss-poor excuse.

 

[Warp12]

It's an estimate, and the most widely accepted one, not a precise number. Do you really want to debate this?

I don't particularly care about the exact number. I'm just saying that Kanye questioning what is admittedly not a precise number, does not make him a Holocaust Denier in my book. People often get fixated on the numbers and lose sight of the atrocities.

Now if he starts saying it is a Zionist lie, and that no Jews were killed, and that there was no intent to exterminate them, then yeah, he is right there.

I think we cannot arbitrarily assign things such as willful ignorance, while in the same sentence labeling him as being out of his damn mind.

 

[Puppycow]

I don't particularly care about the exact number. I'm just saying that Kanye questioning what is admittedly not a precise number, does not make him a Holocaust Denier in my book. People often get fixated on the numbers and lose sight of the atrocities.

I guess you do want to debate this. You say "a lot of people question the numbers." Who questions the numbers? Any serious historians who have actually researched the question? And further, he didn't question the numbers, he asserted that the 6 million figure was "factually incorrect."

Ye didn’t answer directly. Instead, and somehow this is being glossed over, he replied, “And he didn’t kill 6 million Jews, that’s just, like, factually incorrect.”

A statement like that without any further explanation, is not questioning, it is denying. Upon what historical authority does he rely for this assertion? Obviously he didn't personally research the question. The fact that the number is necessarily an estimate does not make it "factually" incorrect. We will never know the precise number.

I'm not a historian but I can Google information and read Wikipedia (which has bibliological references to back this up).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#Death_toll

The Jews killed represented around one third of world Jewry[417] and about two-thirds of European Jewry, based on a pre-war figure of 9.7 million Jews in Europe.[418] Most heavily concentrated in the east, the pre-war Jewish population in Europe was 3.5 million in Poland; 3 million in the Soviet Union; nearly 800,000 in Romania, and 700,000 in Hungary. Germany had over 500,000.[416] The death camps in occupied Poland accounted for half the Jews murdered. At Auschwitz, the number of Jewish victims was 960,000;[419] Treblinka 870,000;[164] Bełżec 600,000;[160] Chełmno 320,000;[161] Sobibór 250,000;[163] and Majdanek 79,000.[162] The most commonly cited death toll is the six million given by Adolf Eichmann to SS member Wilhelm Höttl, who signed an affidavit mentioning this figure in 1945.[420][ac] Historians' estimates range from 4,204,000 to 7,000,000.[422] According to Yad Vashem, "[a]ll the serious research" confirms that between five and six million Jews were murdered.[ac]

 

[bruto]

I disagree with that. He didn't deny the Holocaust, just the raw numbers. I don't think that makes him a denier that horrible atrocity occurred. A lot of people question the numbers.

I don't see Kanye as having evil intent; I see him as relatively ignorant and insane.

It looks as if we're circling the usual right wing escape route: he can't be held accountable because he's too stupid and crazy to be responsible.

 

[Stacyhs]

When one of the most famous people on Earth goes full neo-Nazi, it's going to get attention. Of course.

I guess this just really dates me because I couldn't name a single piece of his music or anything about him except I think he was once married to a Kardashian...can't say which one because I don't pay any attention to them either.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

I guess this just really dates me because I couldn't name a single piece of his music or anything about him except I think he was once married to a Kardashian...can't say which one because I don't pay any attention to them either.

Wasn't that Kim the one who did the sex tape that made the Kardashians famous?
Doesn't surprise me Trump has partied with Racists and Anti Semites before Like Dr. Jerome Corsi. Republicans decided these people were OK because the need them now too win elections!

 

[varwoche]

I disagree with that. He didn't deny the Holocaust, just the raw numbers. I don't think that makes him a denier that horrible atrocity occurred. A lot of people neo-nazis question the numbers.

I don't see Kanye as having evil intent; I see him as relatively ignorant and insane.

Apparently you're unaware that JAQing off the numbers is part and parcel of Holocaust Denial 101.

Hence I fixed it for you.

 

[Warp12]

Apparently you're unaware that JAQing off the numbers is part and parcel of Holocaust Denial 101.

Hence I fixed it for you.

I don't think one has to be a neo-nazi to question the numbers. But we have other topics for that.

 

[varwoche]

He loves Hitler. He defends Hitler. He threatens Jews with violence. He's closely associated with a brazen neo-nazi. And he JAQs off the Holocaust, as do neo-nazis.

And yet you're confident he's not a Holocaust denier.

You're reaching new lows here, and that's no small accomplishment.

 

[Puppycow]

I don't think one has to be a neo-nazi to question the numbers. But we have other topics for that.

He didn't "question" the number, he flat-out asserted that it was "factually incorrect."

Really the only people who have any business questioning the numbers are serious historians who have actually studied the historical evidence.

Besides, he said other things like "I love Hitler" that sort of give the game away.

 

[Warp12]

He loves Hitler. He defends Hitler. He threatens Jews with violence. He's closely associated with a brazen neo-nazi. And he JAQs off the Holocaust, as do neo-nazis.

And yet you're confident he's not a Holocaust denier.

You're reaching new lows here, and that's no small accomplishment.

Look, I think the guy is crazy. And I have thought that for a long time. Nothing to do with this latest material. It isn't an excuse for him...it is an observation.

Half of the time I am pretty sure that even he doesn't know wtf he is talking about. I mean, how can someone say, "I love Jews...and I love Nazis"?? Batspit crazy and oblivious to reality.

 

[angrysoba]

I don't think one has to be a neo-nazi to question the numbers. But we have other topics for that.

You know, there really is no need to bend over backwards so far to extend charity to a person who loves Hitler and the Nazis and to wonder aloud if anything that sounds like a defence or the Nazis comes from a good place. Do you really do these kinds of mental gymnastics for other, non-fascist, people?

 

[bruto]

I guess this just really dates me because I couldn't name a single piece of his music or anything about him except I think he was once married to a Kardashian...can't say which one because I don't pay any attention to them either.

Yes, but one can, in a way, define his fame by that very measure. I too don't think I've ever heard more than a phrase or two of his music, and if asked which Kardashian he married I wouldn't remember, because they're all alien to me. I don't care what they do and don't follow it. And yet, we must admit that despite all this, we do know who these people are, and hear about their alarms and excursions and foolishness.

I couldn't name the heads of major corporations, the leaders of numerous nations around the world, or most of the members of our own cabinet. But I know who Ye is. The reason for this, or the justification for it, is secondary. For whatever reason, he really is that famous (or infamous if you prefer).

 

[bruto]

I don't think one has to be a neo-nazi to question the numbers. But we have other topics for that.

I think you're using a standard to justify one thing while having used just the opposite to justify others.

If Ye were a person of demonstrated intelligence and scholarship, one might take his statement as questioning the numbers, even if one disputed it. But you have just finished saying (with good reason I think) that he's crazy and ignorant. When that person combines anti-semitism with admiration for Hitler and his fine accomplishments, with an assertion that the dimension of the holocaust is a lie.. that person is not just "questioning the numbers."

I don't think you can have it both ways. You can't pass over his outrageous statements with the excuse that he's a deluded idiot who doesn't understand what he's saying, and then presume that one of those statements is a serious one free of the load the others carry.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Defending Nazi and Hitler is mainstream Republican these days.

 

[trustbutverify]

Look, I think the guy is crazy. And I have thought that for a long time. Nothing to do with this latest material. It isn't an excuse for him...it is an observation.

Half of the time I am pretty sure that even he doesn't know wtf he is talking about. I mean, how can someone say, "I love Jews...and I love Nazis"?? Batspit crazy and oblivious to reality.

He's a neo-Nazi Holocaust denier, and a putrid, bullying individual. I couldn't care less about his emotional problems.

 

[dudalb]

I disagree with that. He didn't deny the Holocaust, just the raw numbers. I don't think that makes him a denier that horrible atrocity occurred. A lot of people question the numbers.

I don't see Kanye as having evil intent; I see him as relatively ignorant and insane.

What total crap.

 

[dudalb]

Someone should tell Kayne what Hitler really thought about Blacks.

 

[trustbutverify]

Someone should tell Kayne what Hitler really thought about Blacks.

What makes you think that would bother him?

 

[varwoche]

Imagine that Kanye isn't a holocaust denier. He's just a stickler for historical accuracy when he questions the numbers.

Six million may not be accurate. It's closer to 5.9 million. But of course that constitutes a holocaust, and it's one of the most horrific events in history.

Ya sure.