Split Thread WTC7 is a problem for the 9/11 official story

[Ragnarok]

How would anything set in the core on the impact floors survive the fire?

How does a plane's black box survive a fire? Are you saying it is impossible to conceive of a device that would allow a steady amount of thermi-stuff out onto the structure it was secured to?

Anything anywhere else would cause the tower to collapse in a way that is different from what we all saw and is remembered on audio and video.

Which is what I am asking you to describe. How would it be different?

There were no man-made demolition explosions at WTC.

Never said there were.

Nobody knows how to use therm-anything to demolish large steel beams in any way useful to make a WTC tower collapse as it did.

And you know this, how?

 

[carlitos]

Which is what I am asking you to describe. How would it be different?

Dude, did you see post 574?

 

[BigAl]

How does a plane's black box survive a fire?

It's designed to survive extremes and since we didn't find the black boxes in the WTC rubble, (and we did find major metal parts of the aircraft), apparently conditions were too extreme for the survival of the black boxes.

No man-made explosives would have survived such conditions.

There is absolutely no evidence for man-made demolition at WTC.

 

[Ragnarok]

Dude, did you see post 574?

Yes. I was shown a video of a conventional controlled demolition. Have I ever said the same occurred on 9/11?

 

[BigAl]

Which is what I am asking you to describe. How would it be different?

You have to show us the location and amount of demolition material in order to answer your question.

 

[Ragnarok]

It's designed to survive extremes and since we didn't find the black boxes in the WTC rubble, (and we did find major metal parts of the aircraft), apparently conditions were too extreme for the survival of the black boxes.

No man-made explosives would have survived such conditions.

There is absolutely no evidence for man-made demolition at WTC.

That's right; keep repeating it and all will be right in your happy little world.

 

[Ragnarok]

You have to show us the location and amount of demolition material in order to answer your question.

No, I don't; I just have to raise the possibility it could happen, and you have to disprove it couldn't, seeing as you are the ones with all the facts at your disposal.

 

[lapman]

Are you saying it is impossible to conceive of a device that would allow a steady amount of thermi-stuff out onto the structure it was secured to?

It is conceivable, but the size of the thing would be impossible to hide. If you look at the one Jones built, it's may times the size of the thickness of the rebar it was cutting. Now scale that to the size of the WTC core columns.

And you know this, how?

I asked the leading demo magazine back in 2007. The answer I got was:

Thermite has never ever been used to fell a structure, or for any type of demolition.

Ragnorok will use the "they said that because the government told them to" cop out in 3..2..1..

 

[dtugg]

No, I don't; I just have to raise the possibility it could happen, and you have to disprove it couldn't, seeing as you are the ones with all the facts at your disposal.

First of all twoofer, you've got the burden of proof entirely backwards. Second of all, as has been told to you plenty of times, that there were no very loud bangs immediately preceding the collapses proves for a fact that no explosives were used to destroy the WTC.

 

[lapman]

No, I don't; I just have to raise the possibility it could happen, and you have to disprove it couldn't, seeing as you are the ones with all the facts at your disposal.

Wrong. You make the claim, you have to back it up.

 

[RedIbis]

First of all twoofer, you've got the burden of proof entirely backwards. Second of all, as has been told to you plenty of times, that there were no very loud bangs immediately preceding the collapses proves for a fact that no explosives were used to destroy the WTC.

Are you calling all the people that heard very loud sounds before the collapses liars?

 

[lapman]

Are you calling all the people that heard very loud sounds before the collapses liars?

No. We are saying that what they heard was not the explosive sequence that would have been pick up by 100% of all audio recording devices that were in the area. There, does that clarify things?

 

[BigAl]

Are you calling all the people that heard very loud sounds before the collapses liars?

No.

Rinse, repeat.

 

[Justin39640]

Are you calling all the people that heard very loud sounds before the collapses liars?

are you saying all the loud bangs people heard and then said it was the bodies hitting liars?
or are you gonna just twist their words for them?
"they were exposed as explosions"

 

[Justin39640]

No, I don't; I just have to raise the possibility it could happen, and you have to disprove it couldn't, seeing as you are the ones with all the facts at your disposal.

mihop
lihop
mihop
lihop
mihop

MAKE UP YOUR ****ING MIND ALREADY

shari lewis misses you btw

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

You got that proof the GZ investigators were all trained demolition experts and were looking for secondary devices yet?

Yes, actually. Here it is.

Teams of officers and agents watch as the rubble is sifted down to a fine ashy silt that they then rake through by hand.

"We're still finding human remains, even to this day," says Richard Marx, the FBI’s Special Agent in Charge at the landfill. "We are constantly recovering personal effects -- we found a wedding ring this past weekend.

The WTC rubble is sifted, and objects larger than one-quarter of an inch are passed along by a conveyor belt where they are sorted by hand by police officers and FBI agents housed in temporary plastic tents.

The results of the first round of sorting: finer pieces are sifted out and put into a pile at left, while larger pieces are sorted by hand. Personal effects, human remains and potential evidence are recovered by agents and officers inside the tent. This finer debris pile at left is then raked out by hand to look for very small bone fragments or missed personal items.

The recovery effort at Ground Zero is officially over. But the work at Fresh Kills will likely continue for several weeks to come. Before the recovery effort is declared over, workers will do one more search -- power-washing the barges and trucks that transported the Trade Center debris. And the top three feet of soil of the entire 35-acre work area will be dug up and sifted again.

Is that good enough for you?

 

[BasqueArch]

Let's have it right - the planes gave both buildings a hell of a whack, took big chunks out of each of them and they remained standing for +/- a hour. Then, apparently, all the steel either turns to rubber or becomes as brittle as a pensioners bones, and down the lot comes. I'm suggesting the collapse could have been initiated within the core and it wouldn't look any different than what happened on the day; you are saying it would be remarkably, or noticeably different.

Instead of just shouting "HUSH-A-BOOM" and other childish crap, imagine that there was something set off inside the towers core and describe to me how it would be different?

If the collapse initiated at the core then the falling floor joists and slab attached to the perimeter columns would have pulled the perimeter columns towards the core. Instead the recorded visual facts show the perimeter columns toppled outwards away from the cores without floor assemblies attached to them.

That's how it would be different and why it didn't happen.

 

[alienentity]

Are you calling all the people that heard very loud sounds before the collapses liars?

That's a good point. Everything has to be taken in context. A loud report can be produced from many things. Until you can eliminate everything else as a source of a particular sound, you cannot say with any real certainty what caused it.

It is a lack of such process which makes a lot of truther claims very tenuous.

Have you listened to the Gage/Craig debate on Richard Syrett? I was interested to learn from Craig that the floor system fire tested in Canada gave off a loud, explosive bang as the concrete failed in the heat.

That's just one example that I wouldn't have thought of.

http://blip.tv/file/481370/

 

[TruthersLie]

blah blah blah bs bs <snip> They are asking for the means to more transparency in govt. and big business actions, and you are defending their position to keep their secrets safe. Just saying, like!

Umm no they are NOT.

They are accusing innocent individuals (over ten thousand of them) of helping to murder 3,000 fellow citizens.

It has NOTHING to do with "transparency in govt" snce most of them can't tell you who their representatives are in congress, or what any of the things they are against actually mean..

Try again twoof.

 

[TruthersLie]

Oh, not very important then? http://www.wtc7.net/background.html

Have you seen the list of tenants?

Wow.. that is amazing that government agencies have offices in building aroudn the US.

I have a building in my hometown of Flagstaff Arizona with Dept of homeland security, IRS, Social security and the ATF all in one building.

absolutely amazing that... I guess it must have been on a target list too...

DEAR MODS... please move this derail to AAH. Thank you.