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WTC Dust Study Feb 29, 2012 by Dr. James Millette

The fire-wise professor(s) found a ‘very unusual event’ - sulfur

Not fire-wise and not unusual. The second rather follows from the first. If you don't know what you're talking about, you aren't an authority on what is unusual or not.

...the total destruction of an 81 columned 47 storied steel framed high rise AT FREE FALL

Nope.

...two 110 storied towers at close to free fall

Nope.

...during the worst terrorist attack in modern History.

Yes, that should give you a good indication as to the true causes of the tragedies to which you allude.

...of what would OCCAM indicate thermitic attack

Not even remotely parsimonious. This is why the controlled-demolition proponents have to resort to almost magical contingencies they say "must" have been employed. Appeals to magic are decidedly pruned by Occam's Razor.

...didn’t offer ‘Thermate attack’ as ONE of the working hypothesis for the steel destruction

It was offered, and nearly summarily rejected for the complete lack of appropriate evidence. The rest of your post is just verbal salad.
 
The fire-wise professor(s) found a ‘very unusual event’ - sulfur - IN CONJUNCTION with another ‘very unusual event’ - the total destruction of an 81 columned 47 storied steel framed high rise
Yes, the first one happened in the aftermath of the second one.

So, an unusual event producing an unusual result?

Color me surprised.

Not.
 
...
That they - after finding evidence of what would OCCAM indicate thermitic attack on building steel - identifying sulfur, reported by 'fire-wise investigators' as an element specific to lowering melting temperature of steel during intergranular attack - didn’t offer ‘Thermate attack’ as ONE of the working hypothesis for the steel destruction, extending that instead to three variations of 'acid attack', pushed credulity past credibility into a catagory peculiar to all official 911 science. ...

Oops, your fantasy of termite ends with steel studied. It appears you never took Chemical Engineering 101, to learn what a eutectic is. The paper clearly says temperatures up to 1000 C, which rules out thermite.
You also have no idea what intergranular means, as you lie and say this was thermite attack, when the paper says high temperature corrosion, and gives us the high temperature in the text instead of the BS you post. 800 -1000 C means no thermite. Did you read the paper? Wait, you quote mine the paper.

http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_apc.pdf

You fail to find evidence for thermite so you Quote mine the paper to make up lies of thermite. Why do you make up lies about 911? You don't understand corrosion, as you fantasize of melting steel. You should have read the paper, and if you did read the paper, you don't understand it. Get some help from an expert engineer, your lies are based on an massive ignorance of chemical engineering. You can quote mine the report, "melting" shows up 5 times, you better read it again, but you will miss the part on page two which explains this corrosion took place at temperatures which don't melt steel.
Melting 5 times, "corrosion" 15 times. Looks like on the quote mining side of truth, "corrosion" wins - you failed at quote mining, you picked the wrong word.
But you win for picking the least used word used, "intergranular". You quote mined this one, and you can't define it, or explain it; as it debunks your thermite and you have no idea why.

The cool part if you know Jones, you would know he made up thermite 4 years after 911 when he decided to lie about 911.

13 years of failure for 911 truth, what is next? 13 years.

Why did you hook up with a failed movement? Stop projecting 911 truth traits to others.

BTW, an attack by thermite would show temperatures much higher than 1000 C, or 800 C shown in the study you quote mined and failed with. Clue bird time - and if we go solely by quote mining the report, I win with 15 corrosion quotes... lol - did you read the report? You don't understand it; it debunks thermite with science/engineering, which you don't understand.
Wow, you did quote mine eutectic, it appeared in the paper 9 times. Good job, quote mining something you don't understand, you have no clue what a eutectic is. It debunks your claim of thermite - you debunked yourself with quote mining. good job, you are officially a debunker, a super supporter of the inside job "official story".

Do 911 truth followers get training on quote mining, or did you copy all your ideas from 911 truth "experts" in woo?
 
What's amazing about the quote mining of Jonathan Barnett is that he himself clearly denies evidence of thermite when asked! So it's a poor source, to say the least. Yet Remo continues to assert that Barnett's use of the word "unusual" somehow points to thermite? It just ain't so. I didn't understand "eutectic" myself at first, but I quickly learned that the melting point of two metals in a eutectic mix tends to be well below the melting point of the MP of the higher-temp metal... in this case steel when in a eutectic mix with sulfur.
 
I'm not going to create a new thread for this, someone else may want to, but today, on 9/11, Adam Taylor released a thorough and respectful rebuttal of my old YouTube videos here: http://citizenfor911truth.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/responsetochrismohr4-1.pdf

My YouTube videos predate the Jim Millette study. He certainly caught some errors I made, and while I disagree with his conclusions, I respect the effort he made!

Good to hear from you Oystein.
 
I'm not going to create a new thread for this, someone else may want to, but today, on 9/11, Adam Taylor released a thorough and respectful rebuttal of my old YouTube videos here: http://citizenfor911truth.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/responsetochrismohr4-1.pdf

My YouTube videos predate the Jim Millette study. He certainly caught some errors I made, and while I disagree with his conclusions, I respect the effort he made!

Good to hear from you Oystein.

Adam Taylor makes up delusional claims of thermite. After 13 years that is kind of insane. Why does he mock the murder of thousands with lies about 911.

Adam Taylor is a simpleton who quote mines failed claims and repeats them as if he was in some cult.
Example:
The Towers were designed to take the impact of a
Boeing 707 travelling at 600mph. See:
Wrong Adam, you have the white paper from the port authority it is bragging about WTC towers, and they made up the 600 mph, or they equaled the total impulse of an aircraft impact to the wind the tower could sustain. But a shape kinetic impact is not equal to wind distributed over the WTC shell. As seen on 911, the impact did not knock over the WTC, the WTC can sustain a 600 mph impact and stand, but it can't protect the interior from major damage - the design was to stop an aircraft from doing major damage to the WTC like a small impact did to the ESB. Why included lies in your appendix?

The WTC was designed to stop an aircraft impact to keep it out so what happened at the ESB would not happen in the WTC. Planes which would have an accident would be lost in the fog, landing - pilots don't go wondering around lost in the fog on take off they climb to above the clouds and find a VFR landing with all the fuel they have. When you are down to your last 5,000 pounds of fuel, you can't do that... Anyway

Robertson designed the building to withstand a 180 mph impact. Not sure how the dolt can pick 600 mph, what accident would be at 600 mph at 700 feet. Why would a pilot be at 600 mph in a 250 knot speed limit?

https://www.nae.edu/File.aspx?id=7345
https://www.nae.edu/Publications/Br...ecurity/ReflectionsontheWorldTradeCenter.aspx

The two towers were the first structures outside of the
military and nuclear industries designed to resist the
impact of a jet airliner, the Boeing 707. It was assumed
that the jetliner would be lost in the fog, seeking to land
at JFK or at Newark.
Adam copies lies and posts them in his failed work. Not sure why an aircraft seeking to land is doing 600 mph. Adam has no clue on his work of copy and paste lies from 911 truth, to counter your work.

Adam fails again, thanks for sharing failed work, Adam's legacy of woo, his grand kids will have confirmation of early onset, at an early age. The inability to do rational research, spreading lies for 911 truth, Adam has peaked out as a loyal cult member in a fake movement.

However, as we have definitively shown, Mohr’s arguments ultimately do not refute the controlled demolition theory. Nor do they
erase the genuine concern over the 9/11 controversy as a whole. The science supports the demolition theory very well, and the evidence supporting “natural collapse” appears to be unsatisfactory. Regardless of what Mohr believes, the debate is still very much continuing.
Adam has no clue all his BS is not evidence for CD. Adam is gullible falling for BS he googled from 911 truth nuts.
Adam has a fantasy he thinks he can debate. 13 years of failure, are alive in Adam. Adam has no clue the 911 Commission investigation did not do a study of the WTC collapse, NIST did. Adam has no clue the FBI did the criminal investigation - no clue.

Adam uses One Meridian Plaza as an example for some failed point with WTC 7. One Meridian Plaza fire was fought. One Meridian Plaza was never used again. Same for WTC 7, even if it stood, it was too damaged before collapse to be used again. Fire destroys buildings, WTC 7 and One Meridian Plaza. Adam uses failed analogies to fill a paper with BS.
http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/tr-049.pdf
This kind of BS paper is easy to do, he copied and pasted failed ideas from 911 truth.

The One Meridian Plaza fire is if anything an indication that the type of sagging suggested by NIST could not have caused collapse, since the Plaza burned for 18 hours and produced no collapse. I
Because the fire was fought dolt. How many times do you have to tell 911 truth dolts WTC 7 fires were not fought. It is funny how Adam uses BS to back up his BS. Mixing opinions and speculation with debunking points to support his fantasy inside job of CD, with silent high explosives and no product thermite. He has no clue why the fake paper on thermite debunks itself.
How does this work with Flight 93 and Flight 77?
 
Actually, I just created a new thread for this Adam Taylor rebuttal. It's way too major to be tacked on to this thread. Hundreds of pages in fact. Sorry Beachnut maybe your initial response can be moved over there. Be careful Oystein we'd love to have you back and this might just suck you in! (Also Oystein, please check out my most recent "Look at Iron-Rich Spheres" thread, which has some really good answers I got directly from two fire chemists about the iron-rich sphere phenomenon).
 
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Actually, I just created a new thread for this Adam Taylor rebuttal. It's way too major to be tacked on to this thread. Hundreds of pages in fact. Sorry Beachnut maybe your initial response can be moved over there.

No problem. It is funny how he copies and pastes ideas from 911 truth blindly without thinking. I look at his work as the opposite of your efforts. Adam can't produce evidence so he tries and fails to debunk your work.

I am going for a walk to think about those who died on 911; Adam has picked to mock those murdered on 911 with his regurgitation of the 911 truth dumbed down catechism. I can't believe how rude I am, thinking about 911 truth lies this morning.
 
. . . Conclusions[/B] . . . The red/gray chips found in the WTC dust at four sites in New York City are consistent with a carbon steel coated with an epoxy resin that contains primarily iron oxide and kaolin clay pigments. . . . There is no evidence of individual elemental aluminum particles of any size in the red/gray chips, therefore the red layer of the red/gray chips is not thermite or nano-thermite.


I haven't posted here for a year, perhaps longer. I recall trying (in vain) to help the so-called Truthers understand that their theory was nonsense. I haven't read through this thread, but perhaps someone will be kind enough to bring me up to date. Have any Truthers admitted they were wrong? What has Dr. Jones said? How about Colonel Flagg? (I think he changed his site name.)

Thanks.
 
I haven't posted here for a year, perhaps longer. I recall trying (in vain) to help the so-called Truthers understand that their theory was nonsense. I haven't read through this thread, but perhaps someone will be kind enough to bring me up to date. Have any Truthers admitted they were wrong? What has Dr. Jones said? How about Colonel Flagg? (I think he changed his site name.)

Thanks.

No, they have just disappeared. Just like the magical Al ;)
 
Link to James Millette's preliminary WTC Dust study:

High Res:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/9119ProgressReport022912_rev1_030112webHiRes.pdf

Low Res:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/9119ProgressReport022912_rev1_030112web.pdf


In the summer of 2011, after finishing my 22 respectful YouTube rebuttals of Richard Gage’s Blueprint for Truth (keywords chrismohr911), I decided to see if I could organize an independent study of the World Trade Center dust to find out if thermitic materials could be found. Not being a chemist, I couldn't make a truly independent analysis of the data found in the Bentham paper alleging the discovery of unignited thematic material by Niels Harrit, Steven Jones, Kevin Ryan and others: “Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe, The Open Chemical Physics Journal, Vol 2, 2009,”

http://www.benthamscience.com/open/...J.htm?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM

While I am very skeptical of claims of controlled demolition on 9/11, I’m no scientist, and I can’t independently judge the merits of this Bentham article. What if they did find thermitic materials? I wanted to see if their evidence could stand up to scientific testing. So I began to ask, what would it take to do an independent test of the dust? Some people said that for a few hundred dollars, a lab could easily test the dust. Kevin Ryan told me it would not be so easy, and he turned out to be right. He seemed to indicate he would be reluctant to provide samples of his own dust, so eventually I decided to look for a lab which:

1) Knew a protocol for searching for unignited thermitic materials in dust
2) Did not put down the idea as ridiculous or a waste of time
3) Had access to WTC dust
4) Would not just run whatever test their lab could do just to make a few hundred dollars (they had to know what they were doing and have the equipment to do it)

Finally, for my part I decided not to tell the researcher how to do his/her job. I would simply ask if they could look for unignited thermitic materials in the dust, and if so, what protocol would they suggest and how much would it cost?

The search was not easy. I contacted 24 or 25 forensic experts, laboratories, universities, fire safety experts, etc. I broadcast out a general request to refer me to someone who could do this.

Eventually, I was recommended to Dr. James Millette of MVA Scientific Consultants near Atlanta. He had all the qualifications: 1.) He had a lab that could do multiple tests. 2.) He had access to WTC dust (Kevin Ryan would not be likely to release any of his own samples) 3.) He was genuinely openminded. I asked him if he believed there was thermitic material in the dust and he said he wouldn’t know until he did the tests. He openly acknowledged that no one in the traditional scientific community has seriously investigated this question. I asked him point blank what would happen if he found thermitic materials in the dust and he said he was used to giving forensic evidence that contradicted the expectations of the people who had hired him. He is an independent scientist. “If I find it I’ll publish it.” Many 9/11 Truth activists have told me, “at last, someone is taking the Bentham study seriously! At last, a real independent investigation!”

Dr. Millette is a member of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences and works with internationally known microscopy experts. An ad hoc international team of these experts, as well as architects, engineers, and other specialists, contributed their expertise to this study. Dr. Millette had already glanced at the red-gray chips in WTC dust but never did a thorough study of them. He decided to do this study for only $1000, although the value of all his research was much more.

I thought he just might be my guy. In case things didn’t work out, I called him “Lab Guy” for a month or so on the JREF blog and other correspondences. I checked him out, and got recommendations from a top arson expert and fire safety expert.

Why did he do such a thorough study at such a low cost? He is doing a lot more with this study than just doing a job and reporting his findings. It was the centerpiece of three major presentations by his lab at the American Association of Forensic Scientists 2012 convention:

http://www.mvainc.com/2012/01/13/fe...of-forensic-science-aafs-2012-annual-meeting/

In addition, the results will soon be published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

Some people on the 9/11 Truth side were suspicious of him. I’ve summarized those suspicions on my Richard Gage debate thread starting near the bottom of this page:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212725&page=86

On that thread I am willing, on a limited basis, to answer sincere questions about my decision to choose Dr. Millette for this study. I am not interested in endless rounds of attacks and will not participate in such an exercise on that thread or anywhere.

However, this thread here is about summarizing and discussing the scientific findings of this report. If you have questions about Jim Millette’s credibility, those are being dealt with on the other thread (link above). This is a moderated thread, so any questions about anyone’s honesty or integrity etc. will be referred to the other thread. Here is Dr. James Millette’s promise to us:

“Chris, I can assure you that we will proceed in an objective, scientific manner and report what we find. At present, I have no opinion as to whether we will find any active thermitic material. All I can say is that to this point in time we have not found any during the general particle characterizations we have done. Because we have not focused on this particular question in the past analyses, we are proceeding with a careful, forensic scientific study focused on the red-gray chips in a number of WTC dust samples. When I present the data, it will be in front of critical members of the forensic science community and when I publish, it will be in a peer-reviewed scientific journal. I am an independent researcher without an interest in how the research results come out. Our laboratory is certified under ISO 17025 which includes audits of our accuracy, reliability and integrity. I am a member of the American Academy of Forensic Scientists and have sworn to uphold the high ethical standards of the organization. I do not see anything in our article that he linked… to suggest that we were publishing misleading data.” Jim Millette

I submit to you that Dr. Millette has kept his promise.

The next several posts contain the results of Dr. James Millette’s study. Onward!

Say it isn't so you guys spent a 1000
Bucks on Jones' s nonsense?
Thats nuts and people say I am crazy.
 
...Continuation of my post 3540, since Dr. Babic allowed me to use his microscope.

Here is a better overall view on my “red paints ash” at low magnification:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1130&pictureid=8144[/qimg]

Problem with higher magnification is that "chips" are not really flat, they have some "depth", so it is not easy to focus, some part of the viewed area/chip is inevitably "fuzzy" and two objectives for the highest magnification are unusable.

Here are nevertheless some more details:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1130&pictureid=8143[/qimg]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1134&pictureid=8147[/qimg]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1134&pictureid=8146[/qimg]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1132&pictureid=8145[/qimg]

My best catch is perhaps still from yesterday:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1126&pictureid=8133[/qimg]

Except the second picture, those shiny objects are not resolved sufficiently well to consider them as microspheres or even clearly rounded objects, but some resemblance to Bentham chips can be seen. I think. This microscopy lesson showed me that such objects can have metallic shine, only if the ash is illuminated basically from above (using two lightguides in this cases). So apparently, also “Bentham guys” employed such illumination.

Btw, here is a screenshot from the video of Kevin Ryan, where burned Bentham chips are shown on the left, whereas on the right side, there is an ash after burning of real nanothermite:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1134&pictureid=8148[/qimg]

Ryan put a comment in the sense “Are you able to recognize some differences/to say what is what”?

I’d like to add that my paint ash looks basically like nanothermite ash as well, and perhaps more than the ash from burned Bentham chips;) Such comparisons are baseless and can have some value only for devoted nanotruthers.

My conclusion would be anyway something like: when heating chips of four accidentally chosen red paints on steel rust flakes, attracted to magnet, up to 700 degrees C (heating rate 10 degrees per minute), some shiny objects with sizes ca between 1 and 5 microns are formed in the ash in some of the chips.

#oysteinbookmark

Ivan, you're missed :(
 
Based on my understanding of the contents of the 2009 Bentham paper, a qualifying red chip from the 9/11 WTC dust would;

- have a measured electrical resistance dramatically lower than that of a red primer paint chip from the 9/11 WTC dust
Can you show me in Harrit's paper where he tested a paint chip from the 9/11 dust? Here is an excerpt from Harrit's paper, page 27.

Harrit's paper said:
7. Could the Red Chip Material be Ordinary Paint?
We measured the resistivity of the red material (with very
little gray adhering to one side) using a Fluke 8842A multimeter
in order to compare with ordinary paints, using the
formula:
Specific resistivity = RA / L
where R = resistance (ohms); A = cross-sectional area (m2); L
= thickness (m).
Given the small size of the red chip, about 0.5 mm x 0.5
mm, we used two probes and obtained a rough value of approximately
10 ohm-m. This is several orders of magnitude
less than paint coatings we found tabulated which are typically
over 1010 ohm-m [31]
.

As per the last sentence in red, they used tabulated data from an external source (linked below). They never tested actual paint chips from the dust, even though it was admitted that they were present.

Harrit's paper said:
[31] Abu Ayana YM, El-Sawy SM, Salah SH. Zinc-ferrite pigment for corrosion protection. Anti-Corros Methods Mater 1997; 44(6): 381-8.
Available from: http://www.emeraldinsight.com/Insig...eraldFullTextArticle/Articles/1280440604.html

- would have XEDS spectra showing no titanium above the level of noise on the surface of a clean slice
- would not soften when soaked in MEK for 55 hours
- would show a migration and segregation of aluminum after the 55 hour MEK soaking
- would, after MEK soaking for 55 hours show some elemental aluminum
- would produce elemental-iron rich microspheroids when ignited at ~430C
- would produce a strong exothermic peak when ignited at ~430C
Can you please point out which chip in Harrit's paper had all of the above tests performed on it in order to make it "qualifying"?
 
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As per the last sentence in red, they used tabulated data from an external source (linked below). They never tested actual paint chips from the dust, even though it was admitted that they were present.

This also stands out:

Harrit paper said:
7. Could the Red Chip Material be Ordinary Paint?
We measured the resistivity of the red material (with very
little gray adhering to one side)
using a Fluke 8842A multimeter
in order to compare with ordinary paints, using the
formula:

How many of their "tabulated" samples were contaminated with a metal?

This is almost as stupid as them claiming they only reacted the chips in air because there was air at the WTC. :rolleyes:
 

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