Wtc 7

[bill smith]

bill, people like you are the reason that it is often impossible for people to tell what twoofers say from a parody. I mean, what you write definitely looks like parody, but since you are a twoofer, you could be serious. And like I said before, I hope it is the former, just for the lulz.

I'm sure you'll work it out eventually. lol

 

[Dave Rogers]

Let's wait until the hard text of the challenge is presented (which might take a little time to get exactly right). If Heiwa gets this up and running the internet will be agog with this in days. In weeks the mainstream media will have to pick up on the story whether they like it or not. We are talking viral. 9/11 goes interactive.

This new approach will reach the parts the old approach did not reach. Every engineer's cafe in the world will have huddles of engineers in conclave. If neccessary the Truth Movement will do a fundraiser to raise the one million for this or for the many other possible challenges that I can foresee being designed.

Please, please, bill smith, never fall into the standard truther pattern of abuse, violations of the membership agreement, suspension, abusive PMs to the moderators and eventual banning, to return to us only sporadically as each sockpuppet blazes briefly through the heavens of JREF before the ban-hammer repeatedly descends. Stay here and continue to entertain us with your bizarre and otherworldly views, not least the hilarious suggestion that the entire truth movement is capable of collectively raising a million dollars.

Dave

 

[TexasJack]

Stay here and continue to entertain us with your bizarre and otherworldly views, not least the hilarious suggestion that the entire truth movement is capable of collectively raising a million dollars.

Dave

I'll have to tell you, that is one of the funnier things spouted by a truther I have a read here, and that's saying something.

 

[GlennB]

bill, people like you are the reason that it is often impossible for people to tell what twoofers say from a parody. I mean, what you write definitely looks like parody, but since you are a twoofer, you could be serious. And like I said before, I hope it is the former, just for the lulz.

dtugg -- I've long held the (maybe) paranoid CTist belief that a lot of 9/11 CTists are actually undergrad psychology students, just testing the limits of patience of an anonymous audience in the face of outrageous stupidity I suspect a thesis or two might get published one day.

bill would be a candidate.
The likes of Heiwa definitely not, he's put in too much effort with websites and books and all. Ditto the CIT crew. Chris7 would have to be an entire team of people copying+pasting the same dross for 16 hrs a day, but that could make sense research-wise. Maybe a PhD in the "reaction to stupid" in that particular case?

My claim to the Randi $1M ... bill will now 'fess up and say "yeah, you got me".

 

[dtugg]

dtugg -- I've long held the (maybe) paranoid CTist belief that a lot of 9/11 CTists are actually undergrad psychology students, just testing the limits of patience of an anonymous audience in the face of outrageous stupidity I suspect a thesis or two might get published one day.

bill would be a candidate.
The likes of Heiwa definitely not, he's put in too much effort with websites and books and all. Ditto the CIT crew. Chris7 would have to be an entire team of people copying+pasting the same dross for 16 hrs a day, but that could make sense research-wise. Maybe a PhD in the "reaction to stupid" in that particular case?

My claim to the Randi $1M ... bill will now 'fess up and say "yeah, you got me".

Could be.



And to clarify, I meant to say that I hope he is the latter (serious), not former, (parody). It's much funnier that way.

 

[bill smith]

Please, please, bill smith, never fall into the standard truther pattern of abuse, violations of the membership agreement, suspension, abusive PMs to the moderators and eventual banning, to return to us only sporadically as each sockpuppet blazes briefly through the heavens of JREF before the ban-hammer repeatedly descends. Stay here and continue to entertain us with your bizarre and otherworldly views, not least the hilarious suggestion that the entire truth movement is capable of collectively raising a million dollars.

Dave

Well of course Dave,just as Heiwa I do not believe the million is in any danger. No engineer is going to prove that the top 13 floors (part C) of a 110 storey skyscraper crushed the bottom and stronger 97 floors (part A) right down to ground level solely by the power of a 20-inch subsidence of part C onto part A and with only the aid of the power of gravity. Many will try, and many will for the first time realise just how impossible it is.
This must smash the official story at a single stroke. Whatever happens it will open 9/11 up like a clam and as you know we have a lot of very interesting facts,stories and videos to pass on.

Be happy Dave. We both have the same objective don't we ? Let the Truth shine out

 

[GlennB]

...... No engineer is going to prove that the top 13 floors (part C) of a 110 storey skyscraper crushed the bottom and stronger 97 floors (part A) right down to ground level solely by the power of a 20-inch subsidence of part C onto part A and with only the aid of the power of gravity. Many will try, and many will for the first time realise just how impossible it is....

Funnily enough, truther/engineer Gordon Ross thought he'd proved it impossible. Even using a view of collapse mechanism most favourable to collapse arrest (like Bazant and others), he thought he'd proved a Heiwa-esque "bounce" *. Turned out he got his maths wrong and had to recant.

When last heard of he was in the Chris7 camp, proposing an inexplicably bizarre mix of thermate and silent explosives to maintain his <cough> 'engineering credibility'.

* Argument from incredulity warning .... the concept of a WTC "catch+bounce" is the single most preposterous concept I've heard of in this area of discussion.

 

[bill smith]

Funnily enough, truther/engineer Gordon Ross thought he'd proved it impossible. Even using a view of collapse mechanism most favourable to collapse arrest (like Bazant and others), he thought he'd proved a Heiwa-esque "bounce" *. Turned out he got his maths wrong and had to recant.

When last heard of he was in the Chris7 camp, proposing an inexplicably bizarre mix of thermate and silent explosives to maintain his <cough> 'engineering credibility'.

* Argument from incredulity warning .... the concept of a WTC "catch+bounce" is the single most preposterous concept I've heard of in this area of discussion.

Even Bazant will have an opportunity to win the million dollars. It will be interesting to watch him defend his theory while Heiwa rips him a new one. you don't think he won't come do you ? That would be soo disappointing.

Imagine--Milllions of eyes around the world following the calculations and checking them for veracity almost in real time. A cagefight to the death of the Truth and the Official Story. Give me a thousand on Heiwa.

 

[DavidJames]

Even Bazant will have an opportunity to win the million dollars. It will be interesting to watch him defend his theory while Heiwa rips him a new one. you don't think he won't come do you ? That would be soo disappointing.

Imagine--Milllions of eyes around the world following the calculations and checking them for veracity almost in real time. A cagefight to the death of the Truth and the Official Story. Give me a thousand on Heiwa.

Sorry to give you the news Bill, but outside of a few Internet forums, you guys and your fantasy's don't exist. No one cares about you, people think you are a joke.

No news coverage of your fantasy
No trade groups support your fantasy
No legal proceedings support your fantasy
Log off the Internet and poof, you're gone

Intelligent people, those with the education and practical experience, those who actually know what the **** they are talking about don't engage you losers for the same reasons professional sports teams don't play games against 8 year olds.

You, and those like you, are the 8 year olds.

 

[alienentity]

They saw what they saw and I see what I see Johnny. That's a smoke generator, no error. It seems obvious to me that that smoke is being mechanically pumped out like the smoke from a locomotive. Just a bit faster but in the same pulsed, rolling way. Smoke that being blown out does not look like that. It's only another minor observation but quite n interesting one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8lrTy5mrZY

Forgive me for jumping into the conversation, but isn't the main hypothesis that 'pressure pulses associated with structural changes
(e.g. a partial floor collapse)' were probably responsible?

I don't recall any reports of loud explosions and shockwaves coinciding with the smoke pulses - which would have indicated cutting charges perhaps.

 

[GlennB]

Give me a thousand on Heiwa.

You're no gambler then. You didn't ask what the proposition was, nor what the odds were.

 

[T.A.M.]

a thousand on Heiwa, eh?

Did I mention I have some land to sell in Florida, and a friend who is a Nigerian prince looking to immigrate?

TAM

 

[tfk]

This is SOOOO cool...

billy is spreading Heiwa's $1 million dollar challenge all over the place.

Along with cherries like this one:

"Heiwa on the jref who is one of the world's foremost engineers has put his money where his mouth is and made a startling offer."

Complete with links to the challenge:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4520603#post4520603

Billy concludes with the following:
"With careful management and a little publicity this could go viral. One million dollars would attract a lot of engineers and a lot of interest and attention. 9/11 is going interactive."

Anders, I think that billy wants to be your PR guy.

BTW, billy...

I think it's a great and timely move on Heiwa's part.

"... timely ..." Seven and a half years later?? Timely??

He cannot lose the money if he gets this right ...

Well, heck bill. Since your technical expertise has allowed you to do this calculation in your head, and you've informed us of the outcome, it hardly seems necessary to run any experiments or simulations.

But, wait one minute. We do have one reference point.

You have claimed, ad nauseum, that WTC7 would not, could not, possibly collapse simply from fires. And then a couple hundred PhD's & Pro Engineers got together with a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of FEA statics & dynamics & fire simulation software, several hundred thousand dollars worth of supercomputer time, spent a couple years getting all the dimensions, materials, constraints, loading, etc just right, and then spent about 6 months crunching numbers to get ONE solution representing about 10 seconds of real time (at a calculation rate of several hundred billion calculations per second).

And, guess what, bill. Their answer was the direct opposite of yours.

Oh yeah, I forgot one other important data point. You have shown that you are incapable of calculating simple geometrical areas and volumes. And you've shown that you can not convert from the volume to the weight of a part, given the density.

So, let me think for a minute as to whose analysis I should support...

He better draw up the parameters and terms with great care though for his own protection.

Well, billy, in order that Anders get legal support that is just as qualified as his technical support, I recommend that you act as his legal counsel as well.

and he can get the interest of every engineer in the World.....

In our secret little coffee klatches, no doubt...

and he has the professional credibility to give this thing real teeth.

... in your technically expert opinion, of course.

Biggest laugh of the weak. There has got to be some pop-cultural metaphor for this farce. "Blind judging the blind" ?? "Dumber & Dumberer"??

We will have to wait nd see if he really means this or not. I hope so.

So do I.
___

And the consequence of all of Billy's attention...?

And Heiwa's gotta be soiling his pants.

If billy stops this nonsense today, we'll know that Anders sent an Emergency Message to billy to cut the crap.

As I said at the beginning, "This is SOOOOO cool...!"

tk

 

[beachnut]

Time for a sig change.
“There comes a time when your silence becomes betrayal “

Balsamo the truthNAZI at p4t uses a similar statement. The fringe 911Truth cult are hypocrites with their support the terrorists by apologizing for them with hearsay, lies and fantasy; then promising the gallows for those who oppose their failed thoughts.

But the better statement and advice for Balsamo and those posting delusions would be…


It's better to remain silent than post delusions and let everyone know your complete ignorance on 911.

 

[tsig]

Let's wait until the hard text of the challenge is presented (which might take a little time to get exactly right). If Heiwa gets this up and running the internet will be agog with this in days. In weeks the mainstream media will have to pick up on the story whether they like it or not. We are talking viral. 9/11 goes interactive.

This new approach will reach the parts the old approach did not reach. Every engineer's cafe in the world will have huddles of engineers in conclave. If neccessary the Truth Movement will do a fundraiser to raise the one million for this or for the many other possible challenges that I can foresee being designed.

You might want to raise the million before you offer it.

 

[tsig]

Even Bazant will have an opportunity to win the million dollars. It will be interesting to watch him defend his theory while Heiwa rips him a new one. you don't think he won't come do you ? That would be soo disappointing.

Imagine--Milllions of eyes around the world following the calculations and checking them for veracity almost in real time. A cagefight to the death of the Truth and the Official Story. Give me a thousand on Heiwa.

"Milllions of eyes" makes me think of a GEICO commercial.

The brains attached to those eyes have already done the calculations and are too busy to pay attention to fringeys.

 

[Sunstealer]

Wow and I thought the nonsense couldn't get more nonsensical. The truth movement just keeps on giving.........me huge laughs.

Imagine having some numpty champion you as one of the greatest <insert your profession here> and touting you all over the intertubes linking to some petty argument and a fictitious $1 million. The horror, oh the horror.

 

[bill smith]

a thousand on Heiwa, eh?

Did I mention I have some land to sell in Florida, and a friend who is a Nigerian prince looking to immigrate?

TAM

I knew a guy who sold some land in England. After he started his new life in America he kept getting calls and letters from the purchasers. Something about 'the tide coming in' He never got to the bottom of it.

 

[jaydeehess]

Let's wait until the hard text of the challenge is presented (which might take a little time to get exactly right). If Heiwa gets this up and running the internet will be agog with this in days. In weeks the mainstream media will have to pick up on the story whether they like it or not. We are talking viral. 9/11 goes interactive.

This new approach will reach the parts the old approach did not reach. Every engineer's cafe in the world will have huddles of engineers in conclave. If neccessary the Truth Movement will do a fundraiser to raise the one million for this or for the many other possible challenges that I can foresee being designed.

Therein lies the main problem with this 'challenge. So far it is nothing more that hot air. Heiwa has been asked to prove the money exists and has ignored the question. this strongly suggets that he does not have it and was merely trying to be cutsie knowing that Randi offers the same amount to prove a paranormal power. You are buying into Heiwa's sarcastic offer.

Now you also want to pass the hat among the 911TM to raise not only one award but suggest raising enough for " many other possible challenges ". I believe I asked you if ae911 bothered to purcahse the use of the video and photographic record that NIST used for the WTC 7 report. Did they or did they not? If not then why cannot a group of professionals raise that small amount, and how can they challenge the observations that NIST made without that record?

He better draw up the parameters and terms with great care though for his own protection.

The parameters and terms are on their way to being nothing less than the construction of a full sized replica of the towers.

He better have the money in place to back his mouth if he does get takers.

 

[jaydeehess]

I knew a guy who sold some land in England. After he started his new life in America he kept getting calls and letters from the purchasers. Something about 'the tide coming in' He never got to the bottom of it.

As Sunstealer said, the $million that Heiwa is putting up is fictitious putting him in the same company as the 'guy' you knew.