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Wtc 7

twinstead said:
Now this is becoming surreal. HI are you REALLY defending somebody who thinks smoke generators were used in the WTC?

Give me an effen break!
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Sure I'll defend him and his right to believe what he wants. He can present his evidence and if there is nothing to it then it can't go far.

But that wasn't what I was doing was it? Defending a smoke machine? I remember we would use one of those in our stage show in my Metal days. The big metal barrel with the dry ice? It made the air so dry it was hard for me to sing backup I remember. Maybe that was the plan? Maybe the crew didn't want every stray dog for miles around to crash the door... oh never mind I digress. I was having a flashback.

What I was pointing out was the debunker tactic of claiming truthers are always smearing the 9/11 heroes when in reality your number one hero right here has made a career of smearing and dismissing 9/11 heroes.

Did you miss that?
 
bill,

bill smith said:
The smoke generator is not really good debating material Teddy.
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Getting your head handing to you gave you that clue, did it?

bill smith said:
It's more useful in a television presentation as you may have read further back.
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"... more useful ..."

The Twoofer definition of truth: "Whatever stupidity is most useful to the moment."

The Twoofer definition of authority: "TV & YouTube".

Gotcha.
 
tfk said:
bill,



Getting your head handing to you gave you that clue, did it?



"... more useful ..."

The Twoofer definition of truth: "Whatever stupidity is most useful to the moment."

The Twoofer definition of authority: "TV & YouTube".

Gotcha.
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I never felt exercised in that argument or a moment Teddy. Even though it's a minor point as I said. It COULD become a truly major mover and shaker under the right circumstances though. But that's for later....
 
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what ever happened to Bob the Analyst? He kind of came here, spittled all over the forum for a few pages, then up and left.

TAM:)
 
bill smith said:
This is becoming childish now so I plan to disengage shortly. I would just point out that either the video record and everal hundred observers are wrong about the scale of the fires or the firemen are overstating the case. Take your pick.
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The video record is by no means complete. Your assertion that because there is no photographic evidence, it must not have occurred is asinine on its face.

Please present the quotes of eyewitnesses who contradict what the FDNY reported about the fires in WTC7.

"Exaggerate", "overstate"... in the end you're still calling the FDNY liars.
 
Homeland Insurgency said:
Sure I'll defend him and his right to believe what he wants. He can present his evidence and if there is nothing to it then it can't go far.
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Finally, something sensible from you. So tell me, how far has the evidence you or any other truther presented progressed? That's right, 8 years of nowheresville.
 
Homeland Insurgency said:
Wow!

Why didn't you get this excited when Gage debating Roberts asked if the FDNY was qualified as to what they witnessed regarding molten steel and Gravy responded...

“No not at all”
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Since when are firefighters qualified to visually recognize the chemical composition of molten metal? Since when is anyone qualified to do that?

Homeland Insurgency said:
I also don't ever remember you jumping in to defend the firefighter who heroically climbed the WTC stairs to radio back that they could knock out the fire with two lines.

Did he not know his job either?
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I'm sure in no way are you misconstruing, taking out of context, or cherry-picking what this firefighter said.
 
bill smith said:
It seems to be mainly the firefighters who said 'WTC7 was fully engaged in fire from ground to ceiling, all 47 floors' that Johnny wants to defend and vindicate. Ithink the heroes in the attached clip deserve a mention too.
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It sure does, as not a single one of the firefighters in that clip have expressed a belief in experiencing bombs, controlled demolitions, or suspicions of an inside job. However, I'm not sure how it helps your case to present testimony of even more people who disagree with you.
 
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Guys,

You should know that you've been spanked, excuse me, "put thru your paces", by billy in this whole "smoke generation" debate.

http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TSBMT04T49GGG7HFO/post88136
bill smith said:
But Teddy....everybody knows that jref is a forum of wall-to-wall Shills (with a very ocasional Truther) I am not expecting converts but I do quite enjoy putting them through their paces here and there. I will choose my moments. I reckon I'll see this post again on jref shortly, eh ? lol
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Bill's victory dances are predictable as the tide. Of course, some may consider the referee to be just a touch shy of objective.

tom
 
TAM,

T.A.M. said:
what ever happened to Bob the Analyst? He kind of came here, spittled all over the forum for a few pages, then up and left.
TAM
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I strongly suspect that Bob's still here & posting. He was billy's "lightening rod". Now that billy's sure that he can take the heat with his usual bluff & bluster, Bob's not necessary.

He'll show up periodically, I expect...

tom
 
tfk said:
Guys,

You should know that you've been spanked, excuse me, "put thru your paces", by billy in this whole "smoke generation" debate.

http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TSBMT04T49GGG7HFO/post88136


Bill's victory dances are predictable as the tide. Of course, some may consider the referee to be just a touch shy of objective.

tom
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Sounds like yer friend there was masturbating in the stall of a public restroom till the janitor woke him up, then he went to his tree fort that night to tell all his buddies how he seduced..... Morgan Fairchild!! Yeah! Thats the ticket!!
 
bill smith said:
On the syllables; I was using literary licence. You were being narrowly literal.
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I see, a rather obtuse use of literary license.

On the smoke generator; This is unprovable and is only a curiousity in debating terms.. It's main use to the Truth Community will be televisual. Allow the TV audience to watch the clip and answer multiple choice questions. 1.Is this smoke being blown out of a window ? 2. Is this a smoke-generator ?
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Given absolutly no evidence that such devices were in fact in the building nor even a description of a device that would do what is claimed they were doing, the contention is pure, unadulerated, unsubstantiated supposition based on nothing more substantial than, well,, smoke.

On NIST. I use NIST for occasional reference, but since David Chandler busted them on the free-fall thing I don't trust one single word they say.
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Actually the collapse took at least 16 seconds so you are correct, there was no free fall collapse. However, that is yet another topic.

I was not refering to any conclusions or mechanisms of collapse. I was refering solely to the description of the fires in the building which NIST compiled directly from the video, still photography and eyewitness statement records. How is that description in error as it does not match your contention of the same fires? Please be as specific as you can be.

Always emember that the starting point of science is observation. Everything else comes after that.
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Indeed, and the NIST report contains a great deal of observation. It also contains primary research and comparison. I have yet to see as comprehensive compilation of observation concerning WTC 7's impact damage and offices fires in any other report, including anything by ae911.

The video and photographic records used by NIST are available for a reasonable price, I am sure that a few dozen architects and engineers could scrap together the funds to obtain them. Have they done so?
 
Homeland Insurgency said:
Wow!
I also don't ever remember you jumping in to defend the firefighter who heroically climbed the WTC stairs to radio back that they could knock out the fire with two lines.

Did he not know his job either?
.
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9:52 a.m.please note that this is 7 minutes prior to the south tower collapsing

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Battalion Seven Alpha." "Freddie, come on over. Freddie, come on over by us."
Battalion Seven Chief:

"Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones."

Ladder 15: "What stair are you in, Orio?"
Battalion Seven Aide: "Seven Alpha to lobby command post."
Ladder Fifteen: "Fifteen to Battalion Seven."
Battalion Seven Chief: "... Ladder 15."
Ladder 15: "Chief, what stair you in?"
Battalion Seven Chief: "South stairway Adam, South Tower."
Ladder 15: "Floor 78?"
Battalion Seven Chief: "Ten-four, numerous civilians, we gonna need two engines up here."
Ladder 15: "Alright ten-four, we're on our way."
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No one has ever doubted the veracity of the FF's words HI.
That FF was on the 78th floor of the south tower. That is the very lowest floor which was on fire in either building. It was also the floor with the least floorspace on fire. So of at least half a dozen floors involved in the initial fires you have ONE report from a FF on the first fire floor reached in which he states that the fires on that ONE floor could be doused with a few lines. You do not bother to investigate whether or not he would have had water to supply those two lines. You do not bother to wonder about the fires on floors higher up nor do you consider that in order to get to higher floors they would have to first quench the fires on the 78th, nor do you consider whether or not it would be physically possible to get to all the floors involved with fire.
You do not consider the fact that this is the sole report from any fire floor in either structure.

So, while I accept his assessment that two lines could get the fires on the 78th floor of the south tower under control this says nothing at all about the fires on the 5 higher floors also on fire, it says nothing about whether or not he ever got a functioning line and it certainly does not suggest that he could have gotten the fire under control in the 7 minutes he had left to live when he made that report.

johnny karate writes;
I'm sure in no way are you misconstruing, taking out of context, or cherry-picking what this firefighter said
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How very incorrect your statement is jk.:D

One wonders how HI can be either so ill informed or lieing through his teeth and still sleep at night.
 
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