With a cease-fire like this, who needs war?

[E.J.Armstrong]

After he left the meeting with the necessary cash to make the purchase, he was nabbed by the Shin Bet, questioned, confessed, and revealed the entire plot.

Is there any independent corroboration of this claim?

 

[demon]

From Mycroft`s link:
"But the Palestinian Authority (PA) actually aided and abetted the gang, according to information released by the Israeli Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center."

Ah, the good old "Israeli Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center" LOL. Must be true then.
Maybe they are the same gang who were running those Kassam Rockets in UN ambulances...what do you think Mycroft?

 

[webfusion]

say what?

Israel gained control of the West Bank, Gaza, the Golan, and East Jerusalem during the 1967 war. Israel annexed East Jerusalem--made it an official part of Israel. Israel did not do this with the WB, Gaza, or the Golan. This is a matter of historical record--denial of this is simply incorrect.

Israel absolutely did annex the Golan.
14 December 1981

That is the historical record, Cleon.

Then this gem:
Of course--Moledet, Shas, and the Netanyahu wing of Likud are just figments of my imagination. The idea that Israel maintains the settlements and the occupation as some sort of "defensive" response makes so much more sense.

SHAS is not politically far (read: extremist) right-wing, per-se. The members of Knesset of that Party are essentially centrists, who would easily join a leftist-led government (as they have done in the past).
Also, Bibi Netanyahu is not the head of any "sector" of the Likud which is far-right... that honor goes to Moshe Feiglin.

If you want to talk about politicians who are against any territorial compromises, then the name Effi Eitam needs to be in the forefront of your discussion.

As for your "idea" that the occupation is NOT defensive in nature, I challenge you to show us here exactly how you believe that Israel would suddenly be safer and have more security behind the "Auschwitz Borders" of the 1949 Rhodes Armistice Lines.

===========================
Regarding EJ Armstrong; he is really out of the loop.
So be it.

 

[Mycroft]

Cease fire still holding...

It doesn't count when the IDF catches them first.

Israeli soldiers arrest Palestinian with explosives

NABLUS, West Bank (AFP) - Israeli soldiers arrested a Palestinian man carrying explosives needed to make a homemade bomb at a checkpoint in the northern West Bank.

The man was detained at the western exit of the Palestinian city of Nablus. Palestinian witnesses said soldiers destroyed the bag he was carrying.

An Israeli military source said the 28-year-old Palestinian was carrying five bottles wrapped in duct tape, gunpowder, nails and shrapnel, which he intended to make into a larger explosive device.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050606/wl_mideast_afp/mideastunrestarrest

 

[webfusion]

more firing of ballistic missiles

Yet another example of the lack of "cease fire" -----
this terrorist-rocket landed directly into a city IN ISRAEL.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Yet another example of the lack of "cease fire" ----- this terrorist-rocket landed directly into a city IN ISRAEL.

Usually rockets launched by a neighbor unilaterally is an act of war. The irony is if Israel responds militarily to the groups who are allowed to launch rockets at Israel from Palestinian areas then the Palestinian Authority blames Israel for perpetuating a "cycle of violence". If Palestinians take it into their own hands and rat on the people/groups who are allowed to launch rockets from their neighborhoods at Israel they are executed without delay, even in hospital beds.


Israelis Kill Top Islamic Jihad Militant - 7 June 2005

JERUSALEM - Associated Press - Israeli soldiers killed a top Islamic Jihad militant in a West Bank gunbattle Tuesday, and a Palestinian mortar attack on a Jewish settlement in Gaza killed two non-Israeli workers in one of the deadliest days since both sides declared a truce in February.

Morwah Kamil, 25, head of the Islamic Jihad military wing in Jenin, was killed in a gunbattle that erupted after Israeli troops entered the town of Qabatiya, near Jenin, in an arrest raid, the army and witnesses said.

Hours later, Palestinian militants fired a mortar shell into a greenhouse in the Gaza Strip settlement of Ganei Tal. A Palestinian and an Asian worker were killed, and six other workers were wounded, two seriously, the army said.

And round and round it goes.

 

[zenith-nadir]

An update:

IDF chief urges patience after 3 killed in Gaza blast

Three hothouse workers were killed and five others were wounded Tuesday afternoon in a mortar shelling on hothouses in the Gaza Strip settlement bloc of Gush Katif.

One of the workers killed in the Ganei Tal settlement was Palestinian and the other was Chinese. All wounded were Palestinian, two of them sustaining critical wounds and the other four sustaining moderate injuries. They were all evacuated to Soroka Medical Center in Be'er Sheva.

A third worker, a Palestinian, died of his wounds Tuesday evening in the hospital.

Later on Tuesday four Qassam rockets hit open areas near four different communities in the Western Negev, Israel Radio reported. An hour earlier Palestinians fired an anti-tank missile at Israeli Defense Forces soldiers near Rafah. There were no casualties in either incident.

Palestinian militants in the north Gaza Strip town of Beit Hanun fired four rockets at Sderot, in the first attack on the town this week.

 

[webfusion]

Restraint, under fire...

"At a certain point, our patience will wear thin, but I would suggest that we decide when."
said the new IDF Chief of General Staff Dan Halutz

 

[webfusion]

To clear this up ---

An Israel Air Force aircraft fired missiles at three Hamas militants in the southern Gaza Strip on Wednesday evening.

The three had fired a mortar shell from Khan Yunis, in southern Gaza, in the direction of the Gush Katif bloc of settlements, and were apparently preparing to launch more.

The Israel Defense Forces said that the strike was an assault on the militants as they were firing, (and thus, was not a breach of the cease-fire terms).

Militants? Is that the new PC name for terrorists?

 

[Art Vandelay]

Cleon, considering how eager you are to register disagreement with ZN, are you willing to go on the record opposing the dishonesty of people like EJ Armstrong, or do you only have a problem with people who are on the other side of the debate?

 

[The Fool]

Is there any independent corroboration of this claim?

Not needed, its a statement by any Israeli organization therefore Mycroft accepts it without question.....this is not the time for scepticism to be allowed to disrupt things. If he was told to do something by israel, like arrest someone, he would comply without question, so he naturally expects the same standard of others.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Everyone should keep in mind, of course, that when The Fool puts words in other people's mouths, that is perfectly fine. But no one else is allowed to do that.

 

[The Fool]

Everyone should keep in mind, of course, that when The Fool puts words in other people's mouths, that is perfectly fine. But no one else is allowed to do that.

show me an example of me putting words in someones mouth Art...what were the words?

 

[zenith-nadir]

Abbas Gives Militants Role in Gaza Pullout - June 9 2005 (AP)

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas called on Islamic militants Thursday to respect a shaky cease-fire with Israel and gave them a role in preparations for Israel's Gaza withdrawal in an apparent bid to preserve the calm.

As Abbas talked with leaders of Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Gaza City, not far away, militants fired rockets at Israel for the third day in a row.

Jerusalem mufti denounces Israeli 'abuse of Koran' June 10 2005 (AFP)

JERUSALEM - The mufti of Jerusalem added his voice to allegations that copies of the Koran had been abused in an Israeli prison as hundreds of Palestinians staged protests in the occupied territories.

Palestinians free two militants held after bombing June 10 2005 (Reuters) RAMALLAH, West Bank - The Palestinian Authority has freed two of nine Islamic Jihad militants jailed over a February suicide bombing in Israel that jarred a cease-fire, security sources said Friday.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, under pressure to ensure the truce is respected and security established to clear the way for statehood talks with Israel, vowed to do all he could to track down those behind the Tel Aviv bombing.

Just another day in the so-called ceasefire.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Gunmen attack Gaza PA security HQ, home of security chief - 11/06/2005

Palestinian gunmen and security forces exchanged fire before dawn Saturday in Gaza but no one was injured, witnesses and security officials said.

The shootout began when at least 40 gunmen from various militant groups attacked a Palestinian Authority security headquarters in the city. Shooting continued intermittently for three hours.

Soon after the fighting stopped shots were fired near the Gaza house of a Preventive Palestinian security chief, Brig. Gen. Rashid Abu Shabak, but no injuries were reported.

Uhhhmmmm...didn't Abbas just meet with the heads of the terror groups on thursday and release two militants jailed in connection with a Tel Aviv suicide bombing in a conciliatory gesture intended to ensure they abide by the truce with Israel?

Now on Saturday those same terror groups ATTACK a Palestinian Authority security headquarters?.... Welcome to Palestine everyone!

 

[a_unique_person]

Uhhhmmmm...didn't Abbas just meet with the heads of the terror groups on thursday and release two militants jailed in connection with a Tel Aviv suicide bombing in a conciliatory gesture intended to ensure they abide by the truce with Israel?

Now on Saturday those same terror groups ATTACK a Palestinian Authority security headquarters?.... Welcome to Palestine everyone!

So, you don't think Abbas has the power to control the factions, and not all violence is under the direct control of the PA?

 

[zenith-nadir]

So, you don't think Abbas has the power to control the factions, and not all violence is under the direct control of the PA?

Absolutely. Abbas has lost control of Arafat's dogs of war. The irony a_u_p is for decades the Palestinian Authority sponsored the factions and allowed them to operate freely in Gaza and the West Bank in order to attack Israel. Hell, Arafat would give them money, incite them in speeches, buy them weapons and hide wanted fugitives from the Israelis in his own Mukata. His security and policemen were made up of members of these factions.

Ergo the Palestinian Authority is responsible for the factions and it is responsible for controlling them. Unless one absolves the Palestinian Authority of all responsibility for the factions or the obligation to control them....but that would be akin to absolving Osama Bin Laden for Al Queda.

If the Palestinian Authority cannot control the factions in it's territory that it sponsored for so many decades then I am afraid the Palestinian Authority has no business running a state.

 

[a_unique_person]

OK, but we can agree, that when attacks are made on Israel, that the PA and Abbas are not neccessarily responsible for those attacks.

We also agree it was part of Israeli strategy to help foster the creation of factions, to undermine the PLO, including helping to create Hammas.

 

[zenith-nadir]

OK, but we can agree, that when attacks are made on Israel, that the PA and Abbas are not neccessarily responsible for those attacks.

Wrong. The Palestinian Authority allowed these factions safe harbor for decades. They are as responsible for the factions actions as the factions are themselves. If the Palestinian Authority cannot control the behavior of the people under it's authority, then the agreements with Israel have little value.

We also agree it was part of Israeli strategy to help foster the creation of factions, to undermine the PLO, including helping to create Hammas.

That is a load of snake oil the size of Texas. Israel had no hand in creating any Palestinian factions. The logic that Israel would create factions to attack Israel in order to "undermine the PLO" is beyond reason a_u_p.

 

[a_unique_person]

Wrong. The Palestinian Authority allowed these factions safe harbor for decades. They are as responsible for the factions actions as the factions are themselves. If the Palestinian Authority cannot control the behavior of the people under it's authority, then the agreements with Israel have little value.

And Israel breaks the law and steals land when OSLO is supposed to be happening. Welcome to the war, I just hope the goddam thing ends soon.