Windows Breaking From Heat

Please stop showing tables. Everybody can make up tables and fill out some numbers. TroofTroll wants pictoorz!

Oh no, he doesn't, those aren't good enough either :confused:

Nothing is good enough, if it were, it was faked. This is another never ending thread of circular logic!
 
But the stuff didn't break when it hit the ground. It pulverized in mid air.

False. This is actually the point that you started on when you came to the JREF forum. It was handily debunked and then you abandoned the thread. Just because you stopped listening, doesn't mean you can come back later and say "pulverized in mid air" as though it has somehow fermented with time from a false statement to a true one.

Shmendrick1234 said:
And it is NIST that says the structure encountered "very little resistance".

False, again. This is the fallacy of equivocation. You are using the word "resistance" in two different ways. The NIST report talks about the speed with which the towers fell, stating that the mass of the upper 12-20 floors was so great that the structural integrity of the floor below it was unable to offer any resistance to its fall. Resistance = resistance of the floor below it.

We, however, are now talking about the fact that something will give way when hit from above. In that case, all that matters is the total resistance offered by the whole system. And the total resistance of the towers is, well, 100%, the same as the earth. The falling tower didn't fall through the earth; they hit the earth. And the earth, being a planet, didn't move. Resistance = resistance of the total system.

jShmendrick1234 said:
And yes, you can tell plenty about clouds from their shape.

Mostly, you can tell where the wind was being pushed.

Shmendrick said:
A mushroom cloud, such as the one where WTC1 just was,

There is no mushroom cloud above tower one. Only you see it. And, once again, you are falling into your old trap of believing a photograph is giving you more information than it actually is.

Shnook1234 said:
is a very specific phenomenon.

No, it isn't.

More Shmendrick1234 said:
Very interesting physics.

No. No, it isn't.
 
truthseeker1234, mushroom clouds produced by explosion travels up. The clouds of debrie from WTC traveled down
 
This is beautiful. I said
But the stuff didn't break when it hit the ground. It pulverized in mid air.

to which Loss leader said
False. This is actually the point that you started on when you came to the JREF forum. It was handily debunked and then you abandoned the thread.

I could literally show you guys a thousand pictures showing that the buildings were being pulverized as they went. Does anybody else here support Loss Leader on his ridiculous claim that the buildings only puilverized upon hitting the ground?
 
uruk chimed in with
truthseeker1234, mushroom clouds produced by explosion travels up. The clouds of debrie from WTC traveled down

Yes, the debris fell down, and expanded rapidly into pyroclastic flows, much resembling those of a volcano. Where the tower stood, a mushroom cloud rose up and billowed out. See the pictures (evidence).
 
Since "truth"seeker likes pictoorz and thinks the WTC came down by a nuke, I'll make a rebuttal he can understand:

2412~Hydrogen-Bomb-Posters.jpg



=


collapse.jpg



??
 
uruk chimed in with

Yes, the debris fell down, and expanded rapidly into pyroclastic flows, much resembling those of a volcano. Where the tower stood, a mushroom cloud rose up and billowed out. See the pictures (evidence).
I took TruthSeeker1234 off ignore to read one of his posts, and now I'm hooked again by his Christophera-like delusions.

T1234, two questions:

1) Why haven't you apologized for equating us with Holocaust deniers?

2) Please describe why the dust cloud is like a pyroclastic flow and not like a non-pyroclastic flow.
 
uruk chimed in with

Yes, the debris fell down, and expanded rapidly into pyroclastic flows, much resembling those of a volcano. Where the tower stood, a mushroom cloud rose up and billowed out. See the pictures (evidence).



Do you know what a pyroclastic flow is? This is a serious question.
 
TS1234, you've been proven wrong on every point you've tried to make here. And still, you go for more... amazing.

TS would never let pesky truth stand in the way of a good story - like ABC/Disney in their 9/11 jokefest. (Well, liefest - I tried to be nice.)
 
uruk chimed in with

Yes, the debris fell down, and expanded rapidly into pyroclastic flows, much resembling those of a volcano. Where the tower stood, a mushroom cloud rose up and billowed out. See the pictures (evidence).

Air follows the same mechanics as fluids. When a stream of water falls to the ground it splashes back into the air. (In accordance with Newton's laws) The dust and debrie suspended in the air crashing to the ground will naturally billow back up
 
Pyroclastic flow?! So along with the thermite/thermate and the mini-atomic bombs, there were volcanoes in the towers? Geez, they were really pulling out all the stops on this one.
 
Are you seriously claiming that if there is no photographic/video evidence of an event that it can not be established if it occurred or not?

L O L thats what I gathered.....

Im unsure what any of this will prove. TS wont believe any official reports. So in other words, anything without bias is not to be believed. And even so, how on earth does this nullify anything else about the 9/11 official theory?
 
TS, why is it you completely ignore reality. A real man/woman would be humble and accept the truth of the matter. Do you know what science is? its not biased towards anyone. It just is. Why do you shun science in favour of your belief system? Is it so hard to be wrong??? Your shown to be constantly misinterpreting things or jumping to vast conclusions because you simply dont understand something. And when an expert (for 9/11 large groups of experts) of that something says different, you dont accept the conclusion.

Dont be such a child, Man up you fool.
 
TS, why is it you completely ignore reality. A real man/woman would be humble and accept the truth of the matter. Do you know what science is? its not biased towards anyone. It just is. Why do you shun science in favour of your belief system? Is it so hard to be wrong??? Your shown to be constantly misinterpreting things or jumping to vast conclusions because you simply dont understand something. And when an expert (for 9/11 large groups of experts) of that something says different, you dont accept the conclusion.

Dont be such a child, Man up you fool.

He's a typical trooofer, which is to say: religious fanatic. The more evidence thats presented, the loopier and more incoherent his arguments become.

Furthermore, he doesn't even know what he is implying by some of his arguments. Complete pulverization of 99% of the concrete, mushroom cloud, a photo comparison of the WTC collapse to a nuke test in Nevada. But no, he doesnt believe the nuke theory? Huh?

Start making sense troofinesseeker!
 
Gravy asked
1) Why haven't you apologized for equating us with Holocaust deniers?

2) Please describe why the dust cloud is like a pyroclastic flow and not like a non-pyroclastic flow.

1) In my opinion, the popular support given the govenrnment theory is quite like holocaust denial. I think its based on cognative dissonance created when plain facts conflict with deeply held world-views (in this case, the belief that US government officials simply would not, could not do such a thing). I know its offensive, I don't mean it to be, I just have to report my opinion. David Ray Griffin has also made this point on Holocaust denial, and I agree with him. The issue first came up, because us "CT's" have often been lumped in with holocaust denial, as in Popular Mechanics.

2) Because is is so rapidly expanding, yet clearly defined. Thus the expansion is not blamed on mixing with air, but must be explained by tremendous heat and high pressure. The volume of the North Tower cloud expanded to more than 3 x the size of the intact tower, rapidly, without significant mixing. Gravity could only account for it being the same volume as the tower, because any over-pressure caused by falling debris would be matched by a corresponding under-pressure. The air inside the tower was only pressurized at one atmosphere.

Also, it just happens to look exactly like the pyroclastic flows from volcanoes.

For interested readers, there is a nice little video showing volcanic flows next to WTC flows.

http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/09/pyroclastic-flows-911s-smoking-gun_13.html
 
Maybe TS1234 seen ID4 and he doesn't get why the towers did survive the alien weapon but not an airplane slamming into them?
 
Maybe TS1234 seen ID4 and he doesn't get why the towers did survive the alien weapon but not an airplane slamming into them?

They also survived an asteroid impact in Armageddon, I'm still waiting for that to be presented as evidence of a CD.
 
The issue first came up, because us "CT's" have often been lumped in with holocaust denial, as in Popular Mechanics.
thats because most actual holocaust deniers are also 911 CTers

Also, it just happens to look exactly like the pyroclastic flows from volcanoes
and what does that indicate to you? please draw a conclusion from your observations
 
But the stuff didn't break when it hit the ground. It pulverized in mid air. And it is NIST that says the structure encountered "very little resistance".
There's a third option, you know -- pieces breaking because they hit other pieces, or parts of the building that hadn't yet collapsed or were falling slower. Crumbling is an expected part of the collapse itself.

And yes, you can tell plenty about clouds from their shape. A mushroom cloud, such as the one where WTC1 just was, is a very specific phenomenon. Very interesting physics.

Mackey, what makes a mushroom cloud do its thing, and why is there one in the picture of WTC1?
I'm going to try an olive branch here. This is a fair question, and it also lies within a field that I've studied extensively.

The "mushroom cloud" shape is governed by a fluid dynamical phenomenon known as Rayleigh-Taylor instability. What it means is that if you have a quantity of a lighter fluid trapped under a heavier fluid -- typically, because the fluid below is heated -- then because this is a metastable configuration, any* small deviation in the lighter fluid's boundary will grow and amplify, leading to a characteristic "bubble" shape. As this bubble moves upward, fluid along the boundary gets rolled along, creating one or more vortex rings. It is this vorticity, where vorticity is defined as the curl of the fluid velocity, that gives rise to the shape.

While this is specific physics, it is also extremely common in nature. Atomic explosions typically create strong examples because the fluid heating is sudden, extreme, and relatively symmetric. However, any heat source can do this -- volcanoes and forest fires, or even your barbeque if you're not careful. You see similar effects in mixing ocean layers of different salinity, and in geology in the formation of salt domes. It is in no way unique to explosives, those merely give us a fairly ideal example.

Atomic bombs don't always lead to mushroom clouds, either. Those exploded very high in the atmosphere will not, nor will those exploded deep in the ground (necessary depth being a function of power). One of the pictures you selected shows such an underground explosion. In this case, much of the heating is blocked by the ground, and the cloud effects are dominated by geology and solid kinematics rather than fluid properties.

In the WTC tower collapses, you would expect to see this effect, but the complete situation is very, very complicated. At the moment of collapse, a large volume of heated air would escape or be expelled from the structure, and this air would rise convectively as described above. But there are numerous other things going on:

  • Also as the tower collapses, there will be a pistonic effect as air is sucked in behind the roof. This will lead to more vortex formation -- but vorticity of the opposite sign. This vorticity may interact with the convecting, heated air in extremely complex ways.
  • There is a slow, but large and steady plume from the burning building, creating local updrafts prior to collapse.
  • There is a significant crosswind, as well as local gusts caused by eddys around other buildings.
  • The tower is hemmed in fairly tight by other buildings, which will have a significant impact on vortex ring formation.
  • Last and not least, you have TWO of these buildings burning right next to each other, not one in a clear area.
This is about as complicated as a fluid flow problem gets. It is natural to expect some features to resemble convection, and others to be different. And that's pretty much what we got.

This is why what something "looks like" is not sufficient to base a hypothesis. It's too imprecise. Does it look 90% like a "mushroom cloud?" 80%? 50%? What does that even mean? The pictures can't tell the whole story. The story that they do tell is consistent with the official story. Doesn't prove it, mind you, but it certainly isn't evidence of anything else.

*: Whether or not this is expected to happen quickly or slowly (or effectively never) is a function of the Rayleigh Number, a dimensionless constant that depends on gravitational and viscous forces, thermal effects, and the size of the phenomenon. For the WTC case, the number is large and convection sets in very quickly.
 

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