Will There Be Apology Headlines?

[Yoink]

I love lefty parsing...the NRF ALWAYS hedges...they'd be fools not to...but there is a big difference from what they were saying "likely to be an 'off' year for retail sales" (paraphrasing) to what the "responsible media" reported: DOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!

Now, address THAT point. See, what your (leftist )media does, it's always picks the turd out of the diamond mine.

And these were lead-story reports BEFORE Black Friday. Now, AFTER Black Friday when um...gee, ah, well...looks like um, maybe er, that is to say....

Not a word. The only place you can find this being reported is in the business pages--buried--and on Fox.

Why is that, j'spose?

Care to address MY point?

Yeah...din't think so....

Tokie

Tokie, you have yet to provide a single link to a single "left wing" news source that screamed "DOOOOOOOOM." All I've been able to find is responsible reporting that mirrors EXACTLY the language of the National Retail Federation. So, either provide a link to a "DOOOOOOOOOOM" report or admit that you really don't have a point.

By the way, the NRF didn't "hedge it's bets"--it predicted that the sales would be poor because of the poor economic situation. Your claim was that the economy is roaring along and that people would only suggest that it was troubled because they want to put Hillary in the White House. By your own account you have to include the NRF in the great Hillary conspiracy.

 

[Yoink]

By the way, Tokie, if you need some help finding these "DOOOOOOOOOOM" headlines that you think were everywhere in the MSM--go to the Google "news" page, go to "advanced search." You'll find that you can restrict your searches to a particular date range (say the week before Black Friday). You can type in the search string "black friday." I've done it and I couldn't find any reports in mainstream newspapers like the NYTimes et al. that remotely matched what you claimed was so ubiquitous. Still, I'm sure with your memory of so many DOOOOOOOOM laden headlines you'll quickly find enough examples to prove that you weren't just making this nonsense up.

Tokie?

Tokie?

Or, you know, you could always argue that evil lefty Google has SUPPRESSED these news articles now that they've done their evil pro-Hillary work.

(By the way, does anyone else suspect that Tokie is a rabid lefty who is performing this act of flagrant stupidity just to discredit the right?)

 

[Corsair 115]

Because Canada is a HUGE petroleum producer and their massive oilsands project and other gas and oil drilling projects are working double-overtime, they are drawing tens of thousands of USians...and (gasp!!) Mehicans and other Latinos to those jobs, and the "meniul" jobs that support them.

The economy of Alberta is indeed booming. The economy of Ontario, being more manufacturing based, is not. The Canadian dollar topping the U.S. also makes it more attractive for an American to work in Canada than it was when the Canadian dollar was worth substantially less that the American dollar.

To name another sector, the U.S. insistence on not abiding by the terms of NAFTA and still slapping illegal tariffs on Canadian softwood lumber isn't helping our lumber industry; the rise of the Canadian dollar and the slump in the U.S. housing (thanks in large measure due to lax U.S. regulations and dubious banking practices) only compounds the problem.

 

[JonnyFive]

By the way, Tokie, if you need some help finding these "DOOOOOOOOOOM" headlines that you think were everywhere in the MSM--go to the Google "news" page, go to "advanced search." You'll find that you can restrict your searches to a particular date range (say the week before Black Friday). You can type in the search string "black friday." I've done it and I couldn't find any reports in mainstream newspapers like the NYTimes et al. that remotely matched what you claimed was so ubiquitous. Still, I'm sure with your memory of so many DOOOOOOOOM laden headlines you'll quickly find enough examples to prove that you weren't just making this nonsense up.

This is exactly what I did, as I don't follow all the papers very closely at all.

Nothing. A few "estimates are down this year" such stuff, but hardly DOOOOM.

 

[coalesce]

Well...look it up, I guess.

Anyway...

These are broad, generally acceptable comparisons: Football games are known not to have a set time like say, soccer or hockey (excluding any overtime); I could've used some other colloquial reference, but we were, if I do not misremember, talking about a football game. We (humans, esp. Americans) commonly, when talking about power consumption, compare it to that needed for a mid-size American city for x-number of days/weeks, etc. Now, if you are not familiar with that form of "measurement" regardless of its inaccurate nature, I can't help that. I am guessing you are familiar with it, and are simply being...what was that word again?

Also, the POINT is not the actual kilowatt hours, the point is um...well, the point. And that is that the candlelit half-time event was all part of NBC's save the friggin planet week or some such.

Now of course, out of your zealous need to believe such codswollop (it's a part of your religion, after all) you MUST play at being too obtuse to understand all this (or maybe you are not American) and harrumph, and pull at your bow tie, straighten your lab coat and say, "haruumph, ah, er...in fact, as we see from this chart comparing overall energy consumption (averaged) for the greater Toledo metropolitan area, when compared to that of Giants stadium for a like period of time, we find that...."

Sheesh.

You must be fun at parties.

Tokie

Actually, I am a great deal of fun at parties, sans bow tie and lab coat, thank you very much.

As a football fan since 1974, I am well aware of the average length of a football game, which is why I brought up the issue where you're trying to make a point about power consumption and the average length of a game, which you said it's something like 10 hours. You later then admitted that you "guess" they last 6-10 hours since you really don't watch football. I though it odd to bring up a comparison where you don't even know what one or both of the values are, yet you still rely upon these inaccuracies to make a point. How does my--or anyone--asking for clarification about a viewpoint you support be construed as being obtuse? For all I know, you could be 100% right about the power consumption comparison between, say, Giants stadium and Toledo (lesser or greater). All I ask is the basis of your view. In other words, prove it. After 1,000+ posts here, I would imagine you would be familiar with the idea that the person who makes a claim is incumbent to provide the proof.

Michael

 

[Hokulele]

Actually, I am a great deal of fun at parties, sans bow tie and lab coat, thank you very much.

As a football fan since 1974, I am well aware of the average length of a football game, which is why I brought up the issue where you're trying to make a point about power consumption and the average length of a game, which you said it's something like 10 hours. You later then admitted that you "guess" they last 6-10 hours since you really don't watch football. I though it odd to bring up a comparison where you don't even know what one or both of the values are, yet you still rely upon these inaccuracies to make a point. How does my--or anyone--asking for clarification about a viewpoint you support be construed as being obtuse? For all I know, you could be 100% right about the power consumption comparison between, say, Giants stadium and Toledo (lesser or greater). All I ask is the basis of your view. In other words, prove it. After 1,000+ posts here, I would imagine you would be familiar with the idea that the person who makes a claim is incumbent to provide the proof.

Michael

Super Bowl party at coalesce's! I'll bring the guacamole and chips!

TC, your habit of throwing out incorrect tidbits and hyperbole on topics you admit to knowing little about (football and Toledo) gives readers the impression that you will throw out incorrect tidbits and hyperbole on topics you haven't yet admitted to knowing little about. Just sayin'.

 

[coalesce]

Super Bowl party at coalesce's! I'll bring the guacamole and chips!

TC, your habit of throwing out incorrect tidbits and hyperbole on topics you admit to knowing little about (football and Toledo) gives readers the impression that you will throw out incorrect tidbits and hyperbole on topics you haven't yet admitted to knowing little about. Just sayin'.

Well, now, you're just being obtuse, too!

And by all means, Super Bowl party at my house! I'll make the wings!

Michael

 

[Jeff Corey]

(By the way, does anyone else suspect that Tokie is a rabid lefty who is performing this act of flagrant stupidity just to discredit the right?)

Not a rabid lefty, but that guy at the end of the bar who is spewing a rant with all Tokie's capitalized words being screamed out in an extended. "LLLLLIIIINNNNKKKKK!". And everybody else sits as far away as possible.
And you say to the bartender, "Ralph, WTF is with that guy?"
"Dunno. He came in this afternoon, was OK. Pounded down a few JD rocks, and Hillary Clinton came on CNN. Then he went batshot. Cut him off. He's 86 and I got his picture on my phone for the other bartenders."

 

[bruto]

There's no contradiction: you are a lib, therefore you first, believe what your left-advocacy media says (you will dismiss the more centrist/factual FoxNews out of hand because "they are Murdoch's rightwingnutjob mouthpiece!!!! Everybody knows that!!!") while accepting as objective to a fault well-known leftst agitprop factories like NPR.

If you are lying about it, then I guess it would not be inaccurate to CALL you a liar.

As a matter of fact, if you are a liberal, you MUST lie about a great many things to maintain that level of intellectual dishonesty. See, inherent to the conotative and denotative meaning of "dishonesty" is "lying." I can't help what you are. If you don't want to be called a liar...don't lie!

The left-liberal media always--ALWAYS--spins things economic to the dark side, and esp. so WHEN they are attempting to help liberals "take back" the country.

Do you remember how many "homeless" there were in January of 1993? Some counts put the numbers at a bit above our current population of illegals: 40 million.

On January 21, 1993 the number was: 0

Now...what changed--overnight, apparently--between 1/20/93 and 1/21/03 to cause this?

And your media has only gotten more obviously left-advocacy since coming especially unhinged since the Rs "stole" the election in 2000 and again in 2004.

Now, the left-ADVOCACY media is doing all it can to help leftist retain what leftists believe is theirs by birthright: power. So they are doing everything they can to make it APPEAR as if the economy is in a virtual nosedive.

REAL numbers show just the opposite. A nice, steady, healthy economic growth of between 4-7% generally. Now, of course, you have to avg. this number over time...at least a year. But every week or two, if it dips a bit (everyone with a brain knows that growth dips seaonally for a variety of reasons) then the left-advocacy media reports like this: "growth took a turn downward!!!" or at best they will spin it like this ""growth was not as much as had been anticipated!!!"

Either way, it's spinning. They don't say "well, naturally the economy cools down a bit in the fall...it always does..." or "growth is still up, but up a little less than some analysts were predicting..."

You, as a lib are unable to recognize this as spin BECAUSE it is spinning in a direction you like. Of COURSE the economy is in a nosedive!! The war! Bush! Hate!! Racism!! Starving babies!! Ketchup is a vegetable!!!

Over and over and over, these things run like a broken record in your mind.

Of course, if Hillary wins...the economy (which really WILL take a nosedive, for a month or two anyway) will be reported in your media as rosy.

And YOU don't see that as bias and spin...nope, NPR is the most objective news source on the planet, as is some left-liberal rag in Vermont, one of the bluest states in the union.

Still, all this tap-dancing...but you are unable to tell me WHY the left-advocacy media was (you have not denied they were doing this, at least) reporting that this Thanksgiving holiday, travel would be a mess and too expensive BEFORE the event...then, when it turned out um...well, not so much...silence.

Tokie

You really have gone beyond your usual level of stupid and stubborn. You've gone past political bias and spin, into invisible bigfoot and corn-god territory here. Your idea that you can accurately state what every so-called liberal believes or says without actually having heard it is not just silly: it's insane.

All I have been saying, for the past couple of pages, is that certain supposedly lefty news media, which you make a point of assuring us you have never read or heard and never will, did not say what you think they did, with regard to the expectations for "black friday." Your total inability either to consider the possibility that you did not accurately guess what was said by those whose words you have not heard or read, and your insistence on muddying the water with irrelevant political rants, has gone past just silly, to crazy. You've become a parody of your own self.

As it happens, at least some of the so-called left liberal media did not spin the economic news to the dark side this year, at least during the time I was listening. They remained guardedly hopeful, reporting, as they always do, the predictions and projections of various business groups and organizations. You can choose to go on screaming that it cannot have been so, because you wish it had not been so, but your insistence on believing lies and errors will not make them any truer. You were wrong at the start, and you will continue to be wrong. If you enjoy being wrong, then by all means, continue to believe what makes you feel good.

There's no point in continuing this discussion, as far as I can see, since you have demonstrated that you have no interest in actually knowing anything that does not match your imaginary world, and no interest in understanding anything that you have not already made up.

 

[Foolmewunz]

snip


I love lefty parsing...the NRF ALWAYS hedges...


snip

Another lie. Please provide comparative statistics or withdraw the statement.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Let me see if I follow this...40k 5 yrs ago, 300k last year, 250k now...and that's a net depreciation in your view?

Tokie

No, but it seems to be in Jeff's

maybe (if he's in this area anyhow)

 

[Foolmewunz]

This is fascinating....utterly astounding, really.

So what you are saying is that the Euro is currently up against the dollar...
AND WILL BE FOR THE REST OF TIIIIIIMMMMMEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But please, tell me if I am mis-reading you here...

Now, I am old enough to remember when the Japanse Yen, the Deutchmark, the Swiss and the French Franc were "up" against the dollar and monstershouters like you (with no understanding of the fungible nature of currencies) were also screaming

AND WILL BE FOR THE REST OF TIIIIIIMMMMMEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And then, well, I can only assume time ended, because that all reversed and the dollare gained over all of them..for a time, as currencies do...

A few years ago, it was cheaper to send a kid to college in Europe than to send them to any Ivy League, most of the big tech schools, and many state unis here...

For some reason that did not remain the case

FOR THE REST OF TIIIIIIMMMMMEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But because the Euro is up today over the dollar that will be the case

FOR THE REST OF TIIIIIIMMMMMEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That's a curious view of the currency market. I will assume analyzing same is how you make your living, so it's good to hear from an expert.

Tokie

Tokie,

If you weren't so preoccupied with frothing at the mouth, you might actually take the time to read what YOU WROTE.

I'm criticizing your comment that the Euro was higher than the dollar for the first time, ever. "Ever" is not very long. The Euro in its current assortment of participating nations has just plain not existed that long. So you can't make "first time ever" statements unless you're just playing games with semantics. In the historical perspective, the highest point in five years is just not that great a barometer. As I said, and as I'm certain of (dealing in foreign currencies - and not liberty dollars - on a daily basis), like water, the euro is merely finding its level.

Since I have no doubt that you won't bother to look any of this up, you'll just have to accept my word as TRUTH Because I say so and because I can write in bright colors and large fonts and use lots of exclamation points to out-shout you!!!!!!!!!!

You are just spewing nonsense. You have no idea who the NRF is, as is apparent from your "Oh No! Ack! Ack! The Guardian! A Lefty Publication!" posts. You thought they were a UK organization, and answered about four of us with the same misperception. Now you're saying they always hedge their bets??!! How would you know they always hedge their figures? YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY GET THEIR INFORMATION. You know nothing about them.

And, as you've proven yet again, you know nothing about currencies. Hint: The Yen and one other you mention are NOT currencies that have been converted to Euros. (The Yen being from JAPAN which is not part of Europe (thus the "euro" name... I bet you didn't know that, did you?).
I know you won't look it up, so I'll tell you.... Switzerland does not use the euro, either. So I'm glad you're old enough to remember when the Yen and Swiss Franc were up against the dollar.... that was yesterday at about 0930 GMT!

In short, you are just an ideologue trying to discuss business and the economy with ten people who individually know twice what you know on any of the topics you've stumbled across.

Please LIIIIIINNNNNNKKKKK to the MSM or other sources that now say things are much better. Why can't you do that, Tokie? Maybe because you're just making things up off the top of your head, hoping that if you sling enough ca-ca, some of it will stick.

 

[Hokulele]

And, as you've proven yet again, you know nothing about currencies. Hint: The Yen and one other you mention are NOT currencies that have been converted to Euros. (The Yen being from JAPAN which is not part of Europe (thus the "euro" name... I bet you didn't know that, did you?).
I know you won't look it up, so I'll tell you.... Switzerland does not use the euro, either. So I'm glad you're old enough to remember when the Yen and Swiss Franc were up against the dollar.... that was yesterday at about 0930 GMT!

Er, Foolmewunz, I don't think that TC was arguing that the Yen, etc. were converted to Euros. It read to me like he was wrasslin' with a strawman (on purpose or not, I'm not sure) that currencies cannot change places in terms of values against each other. You may want to retract this one point.

I am in complete agreement with you regarding the rest of your post, however.

(I'll go back and hide in the corner until this weekend's football games start.)

 

[Foolmewunz]

Oh, I know.... I threw that in there in the spirit of irrationality, which seems to have consumed all others in this thread. (Like equating Reuters with the newspaper it shows up in, like thinking foot traffic means sales, like thinking the NRF was from the UK, like thinking the NRF has a political agenda, etc...) I thought of deleting it 'cuz it was too oblique, but then I realized that Tokie only understands about half of what anyone says (it's the frothing at the mouth, rolling on the floor and twitching, I feel), I reckoned, ... "Why bother?"

 

[Hokulele]

Ah, I see. It was just a plot to convince us lurkers that YOU ARE A RAVING LIBERAL DOOOOOOM-SAYER!!!!!!

 

[Foolmewunz]

Well, Tokie's on a break, so I've been noodling with ideas on how to make him crazy(ier).... (Next to BAGO he's my favorite troll this month.)

Best I can come up with is a contest entitled, "Opening lines to make Tokie burst a vein in his forehead".....
My best offering, to date....

As on OP: Legalize Double-Parking? I was just wondering... It's just something that I was discussing last week with Simone de Beauvoir, Mark Rudd and Caesar Chavez....

 

[Tokenconservative]

Tokie, you have yet to provide a single link to a single "left wing" news source that screamed "DOOOOOOOOM." All I've been able to find is responsible reporting that mirrors EXACTLY the language of the National Retail Federation. So, either provide a link to a "DOOOOOOOOOOM" report or admit that you really don't have a point.

By the way, the NRF didn't "hedge it's bets"--it predicted that the sales would be poor because of the poor economic situation. Your claim was that the economy is roaring along and that people would only suggest that it was troubled because they want to put Hillary in the White House. By your own account you have to include the NRF in the great Hillary conspiracy.

And...there it is. I provided the identities of the sources I heard what I heard/read this on/in...you provided NPR and a local newspaper that "didn't." For some reason YOUR sources are well...better than mine and YOUR perspective on what was said/written is more...accurate.

This is because you are a lib.

That's why you can say things like this and believe that because you are not a stoopid, ig'nant, un-so-fist-eye-kated, backwoods, racist, sexist, hom- and xeno'phobi' rednec, warmongering chickenhawk hater (like me) YOUR perceptions are to be taken as Gospel, while mine are to be dimissed in a fit of libbie giggling.

Hmmm.

Funny, that.

Toiie

 

[JonnyFive]

And...there it is. I provided the identities of the sources I heard what I heard/read this on/in...you provided NPR and a local newspaper that "didn't." For some reason YOUR sources are well...better than mine and YOUR perspective on what was said/written is more...accurate.

You didn't provide any sources at all. You've been quite insistent on not providing any sources to anything you say. You generically mentioned the various news networks and the NY Times, none of whom said anything even remotely approaching what you're ranting about.

You didn't even mention that your figure for brick and mortar sales (and the figure cited by all the various articles) was from ShopperTrak, or how they collect their data.

Then you said this:

No, they were counting dollars spent, not feet. You can spin this however you like, but nobody in retail counts things on Black Friday that way.

Which means either you were lying, or you didn't bother to check the data (to be fair, I think it was the latter rather than the former). ShopperTrak explicitly states that they count foot traffic as a way of estimating dollars spent.

 

[Yoink]

And...there it is. I provided the identities of the sources I heard what I heard/read this on/in...you provided NPR and a local newspaper that "didn't." For some reason YOUR sources are well...better than mine and YOUR perspective on what was said/written is more...accurate.

This is because you are a lib.

That's why you can say things like this and believe that because you are not a stoopid, ig'nant, un-so-fist-eye-kated, backwoods, racist, sexist, hom- and xeno'phobi' rednec, warmongering chickenhawk hater (like me) YOUR perceptions are to be taken as Gospel, while mine are to be dimissed in a fit of libbie giggling.

Hmmm.

Funny, that.

Toiie

No, Tokie--you provided NOT ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE of what you claim nonetheless to have been consistent and pervasive examples of doom laden reports in these newspapers. Don't you think that if there really had been the concerted effort to talk down the economy that you claim that you could find one--just one--actual example to show us? The fact that you can't--the fact that all you do is name some well-known news outlets (as if that proved anything at all) is almost proof by itself that you were making all of this up out of whole cloth to begin with.

But please, prove me wrong--I've shown you how to use Google to find the relevant articles. It would take you all of five minutes effort. Please just find one.

 

[Tokenconservative]

You didn't provide any sources at all. You've been quite insistent on not providing any sources to anything you say. You generically mentioned the various news networks and the NY Times, none of whom said anything even remotely approaching what you're ranting about.

You didn't even mention that your figure for brick and mortar sales (and the figure cited by all the various articles) was from ShopperTrak, or how they collect their data.

Then you said this:

Which means either you were lying, or you didn't bother to check the data (to be fair, I think it was the latter rather than the former). ShopperTrak explicitly states that they count foot traffic as a way of estimating dollars spent.

Hmmm....so when the report comes out that says the total spent on Black Friday was x, that was derived from foot traffic, and that we will learn later that in fact, that was a lie--a LIIIIIIEEEEEEE!!!!!--probably planted by the Bilderbergers or Illuminati, right?

And the 15%hike over last year for 'net sales...was that based on hits or something?

Tokie